I had a recruiter call yesterday and invited me for a interview. I went and learned about the benifits, and took the asvab test. I got a 76, whatever that means. He said it was good. Compared to other people who took it, it's a pretty good score.
For some reason, the marines have been very interested in me. Ever since my Junior year, I've gotten calls and advertisements through the mail relating to the marines. Now they've sent someone in person. My recruiter told me that the marines have already spent 6,000 to 8,000 dollars on me already. That's more than 40% of my father's yearly income. For my family, that's a huge amount of money.
The screening process is very selective. You must not have any felonies, not even tried any drug, have a GPA of over 2.5, took two AP classes at the same time in any year, not have any medical conditions, not had any surgeries, not have braces or any surgical pins, be 17 or older, be graduating and not fail any grade even once, not have a GED or drop out, and score more than a 50 on the asvab. Even then, they only seek students whom they personally believe can succeed in the marines.
Only a select few get pulled out and talked to in person. Especially in my school. There has only been a total of three who meets all qualifications out of 1,600 students. The average asvab score is 35, despite it being a rather moderately easy test. In my opinion, anyways.
Only two got picked by the air force, and those two are going to the air force academy.
They're offering to give me free college while I serve the marines. I'll be able to work off my four years at the same time I'm earning my bachelors.
The amount of money my family has saved for me for college is in the negatives. If I even want to think about going to college on my own, I'll be forced to use student loans, and the time I pay it off, it'll be triple the original price. I basically have nothing to go to college with, and I can't learn computer animation without going to college.
My passion and desire to do animation is great enough, that joining the marines seems very tempting.
But my father is opposed to the very idea. He says that the army is a bunch of lying, stealing crooks who only want more cannon fodder or bullet catchers for their military. My recruit says that I won't be sent to active duty or a war zone due to the fact that I'm the only male who can carry on my family name unless I choose to go. My father says this is a lie, and I'll be eventually be forced to be sent to battle.
I for one, refuse to go to battle. I don't want to take the life of another human. The very idea horrifies me. I also don't want to sign my own life away to an organization who deals with war and fighting. If I do join, the chance that I'll be shipped away will always be there.
My recruiter says that if I so choose, after boot camp, I can do a job relating to computers. Repair, programming, ect. I can just do computer related stuff for those four years of service.
Another thing that I won't like is the boot camp. I'm not exactly physically fit. I can barely run a fourth of a mile, let alone one and a half in 13 minutes. I also can't even imagine what boot camp will even be like. My recruiter says they'll start out small and eventually get up to speed. It's three months of boot camp before the four years of service.
http://www.marines.com/main/index/making_marines/recruit_training/marine-bootcamp
I've been researching the marines and what I should expect, and quite frankly, it seems like some tough stuff.
http://www.airforce.com/opportunities/enlisted/basic-training/
Sure as hell makes the air force boot camp look like an afternoon at a playground. Not only that, the air force is only two months, compared to three at the marines.
I'm currently trying to find some information on the marines vs the air force. I have no idea what the air force has to offer. I have little to no interest in aeronautics or piloting anything that doesn't touch the ground. If it goes in the air or water, I don't have any interest in it, or being on it.
But getting into the marines is a guarentee if I so choose to go there. The marines want me to go there, and they will (and have) spend several thousand to do so.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
Is going into the marines worth it for free college?
Remember that every Marine is first and foremost a rifleman. Anything else is secondary and using your personal weapon to kill people and break things is the profession of the United States Marines.
Also remember that in English usage Marine and Marines is always capitalized. They're really picky about it. An airman or soldier or sailor isn't capitalized but Marine is. Once you are a Marine you are always a Marine and no one can ever take that away from you. It is a very exclusive club and one to which I don't belong.
I joined the Army. In the Army you aren't first and foremost a rifleman. You can hide behind your non-combat Military Occupational Specialty and the Army actually has jobs for graphic designers and animators, even historians and you may never see a rifle again after basic training. Totally unlike the Marines.
Something to consider. But once a Marine you're the Few, the Proud, (the dead)the Marines and it is something special. They say that so often it must be true.
I was a dumbass tanker for 11 years. I like the smell of diesel exhaust and my head is made of solid rubber, hence the descriptive name "Treadhead" We're also an exclusive and proud group but it's our job to kill people and break things and we love and hate it every minute of every day. And you get to ride on a 70 ton behemoth and hide behind a foot of dense steel and ceramic armor and have every weapon on the modern battlefield aimed at you.
I am so glad that I don't live in America. That's a pretty horrible decision you have to make. I suppose if it's the only way you can get into your course and you want it bad enough then you should do it.
Have you considered maybe deferring studying for a few years and trying to save up a bit of money so the fees are a little less?
I suppose in the end you'd be better off having an extra 200% of your loan to pay off than being dead.
Also, you should consider that courses like animation can be very time consuming.
I can't give any advice about the military unfortunately, but yeah I'll echo that any bachelor's degree takes a lot of time. Going to university full-time it will take you four years (for most people, it is often longer, 5 or 6 years). Presumably you will have to make some time committment to the marines as well- it's probably managable if it's a part-time 'job' but a full-time one means they'll both add up to be a huge undertaking. (And will you need a paid job to cover other expenses?) And if you do get moved around at all to different bases (or even deployed) then your education situation is going to change. It would be nice to have a chunk of any school expenses paid off, so even if you can't finish in 4 years you'll have a head start.
Why don't you ask the guy what it is about you that they've zeroed in on? I think that's a fair question if they're recruiting you so heavily. It might help you make a decision, or at least satisfy your curiosity (if you have any). :]
As bravo said, Marines are killers, plain and simple. Hopefully Komradedave will show up, and answer about the Marines plain and most correctly.
In any service being a conscientious objector is possible, but you normally get stuck behind a desk. It also doesn't mean you won't be deployed to war zones. They still need paper pushers in afghanistan and iraq. (and medical, and even more importantly chaplain/chaplain assistants)
Now for the airforce (active duty time descriptions), there are several types of jobs. Air Crew jobs are the most lax, with the second most time to do extra schooling. You'll be gone a lot. not just to war zones, but everywhere.
Maintenance has no time. You work 12 hour shifts on the planes, 5 days a week. and you still go with the planes, like the air crews.
Services- this runs the gambit from cooks, admin, to gym cleaners. Depending on which job you get, is how much time you have. They don't deploy much, and can have very bad hours (cooks and gym) or the best hours (admin…jerks)
Security forces are what some call cops. they work 14 hour shifts, carry guns and do all the crap work, and deploy to all the crap places.
all the while you get 100% tuition assistance, and when you finish your service (as long as you finish better than dishonorable) you get your GI bill which pays for pretty much 4 years of any public school.
I've got 6 years in, and haven't finished my associates. i have a friend in, who is starting his masters, with the same amount of time i've had.
If you don't want to die (accidentally or in combat) then don't join. If you don't want to kill, pick a medical job, or chaplains assistant. Those two jobs are not allowed to carry a weapon, or participate in combat, but will still be right there on the front lines.
oh, and recruiters are dirty filthy liars that throw specs of the truth out and lots of sucking up.
Military training is filled with physical and psychological abuse. They wont tell you that. At all.
I remember one time I was doing pushups but my hands were shaking cuz I was feeling a little sick that day. The officer didnt ask if I was ok. He was just like: "YOU'RE A FUCKING PUSSY ASS SISSY ASS FAGGOT!!! WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!? DID I TELL YOU TO JUST STAY IN PUSHUP POSITION?!? HUH?!? YOURE A FUCKING DISGRACE TO THE ARMY!!!" As he constantly just verbally abused me.
Then he picked up a rifle and threw it at me while I was in pushup position. I got hit on the back of the head. It wasnt a direct hit. I felt I was hit in the upper back as well. Didnt see it. I just knew what I felt. But there was some blood from the back of my head.
That was back in the Philippines. The country had (maybe still has. I dunno) a compulsory military training program for people ages 15-18 or so. If you refuse, no high school and college diploma for you. And dont give me that "oh thats a 3rd world country. 3rd world country armies are known for their brutality".
Thats BS. US army trained Philippine Army. So… they share the same training methods. I became a 2nd LT later on. They moved me into an admin position because I was too lax and they dont want a "bunch of faggots". lol
Military training is designed to turn you into a killer. To make you robotic and to just follow orders. Notice how alot of killers and violent criminals have a history of having abusive families? Thats exactly it. Thats what the military likes to simulate. Thats the mind control right there. As they constantly fill your head with propaganda at the same time. I remember being brainwashed to see Chinese, communists, and muslims as less than human. But in fact they are just like other people who were misled. They are no different from us. Brainwashed as well. In a state of hypnosis. Their thoughts are not their own. I remember an officer say "In war, there are no crimes."
Join the military and expect to take alot of mental and physical abuse.
I have a novel that I'm writing. I need like two chapters, and it's done. If I get it published (which I have no idea how to get something published, then have it sold) would that be enough to get me through a community college?
I really need this bit of information. I need that to be an option. What I also need is time. I can't research that right now, I have other things to get to.
As I mentioned in the topic title, all I want is a free way through college. It does not in any way have to be easy. As long as I get a career that I want, I will do anything, other than take a life, to get it.
My passion and desire burns with great intensity. I want nothing to stand in my way.
Something I learned just today is that one of my best friends since the 7th grade is joining the marines. He's signed up and is going 100%. If I do decide to go to boot camp within the month, I will be going to the same boot camp as he and six other students from the school.
Because there will be a potential six students going, I can tell by that information, and I understand now, that I am certainly not the only one he has personally talked to like this.
Recruiters zero in because you are so motivated. Recruiters like motivated people because they have good potential.
I worked with recruiters. They're professional liars like most HR professionals. You're only a resource to be used and abused so they reach their goals.
That being said think WIIFM. What's in it for me. You can play the game and get what you want if you keep your wits about you.
The history of the armed services is full of guys who enlisted, worked 24 hour days and still wrote and studied. It's a question of motivation and knowing what you are capable of achieving.
That's what basic training is about too. It's a question of motivation and discovering that you can do more than you thought you could. The verbal and mental abuse is all there so you can discover that there's more in you than you thought. Watch the movie Stripes sometime. I was Bill Murray's character. Thing is they were doing it for me not to me. But you only find that out at the end.
If you can't see yourself doing it full-time there's always the Reserves and National Guard. Their deployments are more limited than the regular services and you can still have a civilian life. In the Reserves it's also easier to hook up with good senior NCOs and officers who'll help you through your service because they have more interest in retaining you.
Simple question, do you want to be a Marine?
Is it worth it? well if the answer to the former question is yes then the answer to the second follows suit. I wouldn't hold out on the publishing thing though, no offence but that is probably a long shot anyway and you can always come back to it or do it in the background.
Personally if I had the sense I have now when I was younger I would have joined the armed forces in some capacity. Hindsight is great like that.
I can say only my personal experience. Which is that my mom told me not too long ago that despite having three grown children (late twenties to early thirties) all unemployed and one living with them, and all still paying off college debts, she is grateful that none of use joined the armed forces.
For some people, it is great. One friend joined the Navy, and it was the best move for him. He does very well, and it's a good fit. Unfortunately, another friend (a younger boy, whose family and mine were always very close) died over seas in his early 20's, not in combat but from an infection of a non-combat injury. I was stunned to learn it, but it happens.
When he was young and people were being drafted, my dad joined the Peace Corps. He got dysentery and other general unpleasant experiences of living in underdeveloped areas. But he does not regret the choice. It gave him the experience he needed, and my dad never wanted to kill anyone. I know I wouldn't be able to either. It was a hard choice he had.
But, in short, don't listen to recruiters. They are professional BS artists. Do your own research and talk to people who have personal experiences. Make your choice based on that.
Recruiters zero in because you are so motivated. Recruiters like motivated people because they have good potential.
I worked with recruiters. They're professional liars like most HR professionals. You're only a resource to be used and abused so they reach their goals.
But, in short, don't listen to recruiters. They are professional BS artists. Do your own research and talk to people who have personal experiences. Make your choice based on that.Hahaha!
That reminds me of what I read about recruiters for the British army in the 18th and 19th century- massive bullshitters and professional con artists would would do anything and say anything to get people to join up… Because once you do, there's no way out. It was exactly like tricking people into signing up for a prison sentence.
I doubt it's that bad now though, but the people in this thread offer good advice.
If you're really interested in it, maybe try for officer training instead if that's possible? Could give you more opportunities.
I doubt it's that bad now though, but the people in this thread offer good advice.
If you're really interested in it, maybe try for officer training instead if that's possible? Could give you more opportunities.
Officer Training School requires a degree in hand. However, there is also Reserve Officer Training Course, which makes you "be in the military" for your schooling, and offer differing scholarships, and gives you a stipend. At the end of your schooling, you commission and serve an officer term (high high pay, but tons of responsibility…sometimes)
Or there are the acadamies. West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy. It's 4 year programs, but you are in the military while in those schools. You have to do whatever they say, and you're pretty much in basic until your senior year. Then you have to serve your commission. It's all "paid for" by you, but you also get a small stipend as well.
but outside the military there are plenty of other ways to get to college for (practically) free.
There are thousands of types of scholorships out there, and few people know of all of them. the colleges normally have a listing of all available.
Colleges provide financial aid to poor students.
FAFSA is your friend.
Most colleges have programs that if you work for them, you can attend x amount of classes free.
I can't give you any perspectives on the armed services, but I did get a full education in Computer Animation, graduated, and got a good job in the field. Plus, despite growing up in a fairly poor family, my college is paid for.
There are certain colleges that profess to be experts in the field of Computer Animation, and promise a good education and good placement. These are places like Full Sail, Digipen, Art Institute of (insert city here), and Savannah. They're not lying, but the price they charge you will keep you in debt for decades if you're not careful.
Conversely, most community colleges have young and underdeveloped programs in Animation. Some go no further than teaching things you could gleam from online Flash or Blender tutorials. Their teaching and placement abilities are far inferior to the expensive colleges I named previously. (note: there are probably some community colleges that are better than this, but finding them is tricky)
You might want to consider the middle ground: state universities. These are more expensive than a community college, but are still much more affordable than the art colleges. If it's a college of the state you're living in, it's even cheaper. And some of them have pretty reasonable Animation programs. This is the kind of thing you'll need to research, because there are a lot of colleges out there.
No matter what, Computer Animation is an increasingly competitive field, and you'll not only need to work to stand out from your competition, but you'll also need to do all the networking you can. Get to know your teachers, classmates, and anyone who comes recruiting. Computer Animation is not the kind of college course you want to take online from home in your pajamas.
Last of all, like seventy2 said, go for those scholarships. There's all sorts of stuff out there… even more if you're gay, female, non-white, or a journalist. and definitely go for FAFSA. It caters to lower-income families and was quite a help to me.
There are certainly options available to you.
There's all sorts of stuff out there… even more if you're gay, female, non-white, or a journalist. and definitely go for FAFSA. It caters to lower-income families and was quite a help to me.
There are certainly options available to you.
I am none of those that you listed. However, I am Thai/White, and I filled out a scholarship relating to having Thai heritage.
That was five months ago, and I haven't heard any news if I did or didn't get it.
I have applied to tweleve scholoarships in total, and I either got that I didn't get it, or I didn't get any news about it at all.
So far, when it comes to finantial aid, I have nothing, and a limited amount of time to decide what I'm going to do with my life.
I would like to say that I have stress right now, but that'd be too much of an understatement.
If you don't believe in the patriotic cause, or don't want to be a Marine, do not join. It is a significant life choice to enlist into the military. Especially the USM. There's no such thing as a "safe desk job" when you are in the USM. The Marines are the guys who the US gov't put out in the front and center in a war; that's why they're The Few & The Proud.
I flirted with joining the military when I was in college, for the same exact reasons you have. With my qualifications the recruiters were talking about Officer School straight away, no grunt-training for me.
But that was before Bush Jr and America's start in the Endless Mideast War(s). If I had joined, I would have shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan. I hate Bush Jr with all of my heart and soul, and as I grew older I look at the US gov't with increasing cynicism. I'm so glad I did not join the military. It's like asking me to risk my life for a boss whose guts I hate.
You're young, and those concepts don't really mean anything to you at this stage.
Even though you know a bullet can kill you, you don't really think about it.
And maybe you think your parents give you a hard time, but wait until you have to be bossed around by a non-relative who doesn't give a F**K about you, or who is just an A**hole in general… then you'll appreciate your parents.
And even though you make fun of a President sometimes, you don't really think about the course of a nation, and why things like the mortgage bubble, or mideast protests, why they really happen.
I know, I was there (your age). But as you grow just a bit older, you'll see these things. And at that point, you would be very sorry if you're stuck in the military without having patriotic blinders securely fastened on your head. The little bit of money a college tuition is, matters little in that perspective. You would still have your FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM~~
Seriously, state university tuition is chump change. There's any number of ways you can mitigate that cost. A part-time job, scholarships, smart college choice, etc etc. Even if you take college loans 100%, as long as you're capable and motivated, and get a job in your field after you graduate, the loan bills aren't that bad (for state universities). It's private universities which wring you dry.
Best thing to do if still torn about enlisting is to seek out a veteran (WHO IS NOT A RECUITER) preferrably a senior NCO (E-6 and above) who re-upped at least once and ask them.
They've been there and done that and their opinion is based on real-life experience with the biazzare other world that is the professional military.
It was easier dealing with asshole superiors in the Army than in the civilian world.
When I mentioned asshole superiors, I didn't mean your direct superiors in the military. I meant the United States of America.
Seriously, do you want to die for Bush Jr's Mission Accomplished? Or his neo-con hawks who never saw a day's combat in their lives?
Okay, forget Bush Jr. Do you want to die for any of those bickering greedy Washington politicians who would control your life if you enlist? Make no mistake, when you ship off to the Middle East, you're not fighting for America. You're fighting for Big Oil and Big Military Industry that those politicians are in bed with.
There are others you could ask: those at the Veteran Hospitals. Many do not regret enlisting, many do.
it really depends on you (not ayesinback)
take me for example. I love being in, traveling the world seeing new places, making lots of money.
Someone else doing the exact same job, is getting out because they're never home and work odd hours.
the exact same station, exact same job. exact same time spent at home, and away. two very different people.
But eventually everyone goes to college.
it really depends on you (not ayesinback)ey?
very happily, most veterans are not in hospitals, but if someone is considering a commitment like this and have only heard the recruiter's pitch, this is the other swing to the pendulum.
What you said is true, but that's true of every job.
However, when my husband was in the Navy, it was quite clear that it's not like other jobs, if only from the standpoint that you can't give two weeks notice and leave.
Look, if you are being offered an education you take that education, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Trust me, I would be entirely unsuited for the military, but if that were my only means of having a full education I would take it in an instant. Don't go for those loans either. If you choke yourself off finantially for the first ten years of your life out of college then that's ten years you spend unable to acheive anything of note. I'm not sure how long it would actually take to pay off, but however long it would be is too long.
furthermore, the US Marine Corps is one of the most respected institutions out there, and that respect lasts a lifetime. It won't be easy getting it, but it will be a hell of a lot easier spending the rest of your life wishing you hadn't let the opportunity pass you by.
There are only certain people who are suited for the military. If your reason for going to the military is to get an education, I would say that this is not the right way to go about it. Even if you have to work your way for years to get your education, you have the possibility of getting killed and/or suffering severe psychological problems by going to war. If you aren't fully committed to this, then I would say do it any other way, or even work an extra five years of your life to get to where you need to be. People are getting their education at older ages these days, and even an education isn't a guarantee to a good job.
When I mentioned asshole superiors, I didn't mean your direct superiors in the military. I meant the United States of America.
you're not fighting for America. You're fighting for Big Oil and Big Military Industry that those politicians are in bed with.
People have been saying similar since they considered enlisting with Agamemnon and fighting for his stupid ditz of a runaway wife. I'll not fight for Helen but I will fight with Achilles!
And that's what you end up fighting for. It's for the guy next to you. Achilles down to Major Winters to Sergeant Joe Snuffy. Agamemnon to Bush or Obama be damned. They're not going to get me killed in the next fifteen minutes but Lt. Dumbass will.
That's why you have to learn how to deal with asshole superiors. What can I change and what can't I change? I have to deal with Lt. Dumbass but the Neo-con movement is a bit beyond my control until I can get my articles published in Foreign Affairs.
As I've said elsewhere I never intend to die for my country but to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his.
What's it all about? What's in it for me? What can I do that will have the best impact on my future?
If that means I have to challenge myself like I've never done anything in my entire life I'll do it. I was a very unmilitary civilian before I enlisted. No one gave me a chance in hell of getting past the first month of Basic Training; except guys who had been there and the guys next to me.
Baseball scores will end up mattering more than decisions in boardrooms because there's not a damn thing I can do about either one but I have control over what happens in my immediate area.
Well, I just decided to so some exercise this Wednesday, you know, to try and make a first hand comparsion of what boot camp might be like, but more like what I can do, and I must say, just an hour of it is quite some hard work.
I wasn't even working out that whole hour. More like twenty minutes.
Like hell if I'm joining the Marines. I can't even run a block without collapsing to my knees and gasping for air as though I'm dying.
The Marines sure are complete morons if they're seriously looking for people like me. That, or they're desperate.
Why would they want hypocritical hemophobia pacifist who can't even jog to save his life in their ranks? Not only that, one that is only in for the benifits, and nothing else?
If there was anything I learned from this, it's that I need to keep exercising. Sure has motivated me to do so.
Strange thing: Once I made my decision (I never told the recruiter yet) in my mind to not go, the guy has disappeared and I can't even find him anymore. One day he's escorting me to all my classes, the next, gone.
Another strange thing: As soon as I decided not to go to the Marines, I've been getting mail from the Navy to join their ranks. They sent me a personalized letter and everything to contact a recruiter. Not only that, but their offering the exact same things the Marines were offering me.
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