Why does Fantasy (and sometimes Sci Fi) portray armor as having HUGE shoulder armor? I never saw armor that huge in historical examples (such as the armor those Authorian knights used). Is there some symbolic significance that comes with wearing so much shoulder armor that it looks like a tiny body carrying two huge Challenger Tanks on his shoulders?!?
Come to think of it… were war hammers and spiked maces invented in order to overcome heavy metal plate armor?
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
Just a question about "armor"...
A spiked mace or maul won't do too much to armour, nor will an ordinary warhammer, they'll just batter it about. There WERE special warhammers and maces made though that just had a single spike for the head- those are good designed for going through armour.
Wide shoulders symbolise strength. That's why people sometimes where shoulder pads to look important.This, of course :)
That is probably why.
In reality big, bulky pauldrons, or spaulders will actively hinder the full movement of the arms and serve to catch downward sword hacks- meaning that it would help to kill you. This is why shoulder armour, including the sode worn by the samurai, is designed to deflect blows off and down, away from the body.
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The other thing about increasing the shoulder size in art featuring armour is that it can help balance out the rest of the figure… Often if someone's wearing a massive helmet the rest of the body will look small and diminutive.
For a really good comparison look at old school stoormtroopers and compare them with Darth Vader: not only is he big and black, he also has some shoulder things built into his armour to give him wider shoulders, increasing his powerful look, whereas the storm-troopers don't have much to off-sett their giant, planet-sized heads so they don't look nearly as capable.
Big head == little kid.
Nothing impresess the ladies quite like an over-sized crotch guard.
It's pretty much what BFFSatan said, big shoulder plates and big armour = protrayal of brute strength.
Most of the fantasy images I see with massive armour is really just for show, massive armour is highly impractical, it just looks cool. While we're on the subject of oversized armour and weaponry, what about giant swords? I've seen that far too often, where a sword is as thick as a big and at least six foot long and impossible to carry… Once again impractical, but looks cool.
You should instead be asking why the same armour have groin guards which hang down past the knees.
That's obvious. it's what men did to compensate before cars were invented.
Do you mean codpieces or tassets and faulds? Two different things. One protects and projects the phallus and the other protects the groin, upper thigh and so on.
The tassets are the things flanking the codpiece.
The faulds are below the breastplate on the hips, the tassets are the things hanging down over the upper thigh.
Look up modern body armor and the current issue stuff has add-ons that go down to the knees. Well look at that real modern body armor has that big plate covering the crotch just like the fantasy armor.
Like BFF said, I think it's to establish a visual sense of power or to make the character look stronger. Or maybe just to compensate for something in the codpiece area. ;)
As for the other thing mentioned, blunt weapons weren't entirely useless on classical european metal armor. Thick plate and the like can potentially protect you from cuts, but a strong enough bludgeoning weapon is still potentially going to smash your ribs from the shock of force being applied. That kind of armor, even with under padding, was not a sponge for everything. Granted, it could still protect a person from an otherwise lethal attack, but they were hardly invincible.
Do you mean codpieces or tassets and faulds? Two different things. One protects and projects the phallus and the other protects the groin, upper thigh and so on.
The faulds are below the breastplate on the hips, the tassets are the things hanging down over the upper thigh.
Look up modern body armor and the current issue stuff has add-ons that go down to the knees. Well look at that real modern body armor has that big plate covering the crotch just like the fantasy armor.
I'd feel so awkward typing in: "Medieval Groin Guard/codpiece/tasset/faulds" into google images.
They're all very original I'e noticed, it's like women with their handbags trying to impress other women. Except its with Codpieces and men… You could put stuff in it.
Wait… so that cod piece is supposed to "project" the phallus and protect it? I don't know about you, but if I met a knight with his codpiece sticking out, I'd smash it in with my 50 pound sledgehammer. If he crumples and whimpers, well… I win. If he just stands there with that codpiece all crushed in, I still win and all his fellow knights will laugh at him. :)
Do you mean codpieces or tassets and faulds? Two different things. One protects and projects the phallus and the other protects the groin, upper thigh and so on.
The faulds are below the breastplate on the hips, the tassets are the things hanging down over the upper thigh.
Look up modern body armor and the current issue stuff has add-ons that go down to the knees. Well look at that real modern body armor has that big plate covering the crotch just like the fantasy armor.
I'd feel so awkward typing in: "Medieval Groin Guard/codpiece/tasset/faulds" into google images.
They're all very original I'e noticed, it's like women with their handbags trying to impress other women. Except its with Codpieces and men… You could put stuff in it.
You can put stuff in a cod piece. I use mine for jewelry.
They're all very original I'e noticed, it's like women with their handbags trying to impress other women. Except its with Codpieces and men… You could put stuff in it.LOL
As for the other thing mentioned, blunt weapons weren't entirely useless on classical european metal armor. Thick plate and the like can potentially protect you from cuts, but a strong enough bludgeoning weapon is still potentially going to smash your ribs from the shock of force being applied. That kind of armor, even with under padding, was not a sponge for everything. Granted, it could still protect a person from an otherwise lethal attack, but they were hardly invincible.You can batter with a big sword too, but either way you're better off with plate than other armour types against any impact- it spreads the force somewhat and it's an outward, rigid shell, whereas chain, scale, or even lamellar is going to going to transfer that force more directly to the body beneath… So big, blunt weapons are more useless against plate than any other armour type. :)
-Plate armour is even shaped specifically in such a way as to deflect the force of blows.
Yah, I think he was talking about his family jewels…You can put stuff in a cod piece. I use mine for jewelry.I imagine its a very safe hiding place, you could keep all your valuables in there, including the manhood valuable.
Why hasn't anyone asked Harkovast yet?Are his armoured shoulders big in his art? I know he draws a lot of it and he's a fan of massive armoured warhammer 40k space marines, so maybe they are…?
I used to draw a lot of armour, got some commissions for it too, and even made some as an art project. I learned first hand that big shoulder armour was a silly, impractical modern meme. >:[
One of the main issues is that the bigger the shoulder, the smaller the upper arm, the wider the chest etc. A normal human body can't work in that shell.
These are great bad examples…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vF_VLZotWc
so you can see them move.
Besides, aren't those pads supposed to move with the arms?They would only to a limited extent. The wearer would not be able to lift his arms higher than about 60 degrees from his torso (if that) because the top of the shoulder armour would bash into his head, and would not be able to fold his forearm to his shoulder- there'd be at lest a 20-30 degree angle because the vambrace would clonk against massively thick rim of bottom of the shoulder armour
The only purpose for them was to make the original miniatures look cool, everything after that is just rationalisation after the fact because that thing grew from a table top game into a narrative universe.
In reality they're utterly impractical, no matter what fantasy strength enhancements they're supposed to bestow because they restrict movement so much that even holding a gun properly wouldn't be possible.
In the movie I see they made the shoulder pieces of the ultramarine smaller and hinged outward so the poor jarhead can actually move.
One thing I noticed in real plate armor is just how small the shoulder armor was in comparison to all the fantasy images. It was only huge on tournament armor where the knight didn't need to move much.
And remember on full plate the weight is so well distributed the wearer can turn a cartwheel. Unlike chain where the weight of the armor falls on the solely shoulders because chain just hangs there pulling the wearer down.
But like carrying any great weight it wears you out. Wear armor? Only if I don't have to walk!
One thing I noticed in real plate armor is just how small the shoulder armor was in comparison to all the fantasy images. It was only huge on tournament armor where the knight didn't need to move much.That's true. When people contemplate suits of plate in fiction they invent disadvantages for it, especially weight and restricted movement, when in reality that's utter childish nonsense. The only suits of plate that really had weight and movement issues was jousting armour, which was basically sports equipment and nothing else.
And remember on full plate the weight is so well distributed the wearer can turn a cartwheel. Unlike chain where the weight of the armor falls on the solely shoulders because chain just hangs there pulling the wearer down.
The one true disadvantage of a suit of plate was expense. Those things were generally tailor made to each individual by expert craftsmen and it was a process that took a lot of training, time and effort. Only the very wealthy could afford it. They weren't always entirely practical either- suits certainly changed with fashions and popular styles.
The one true disadvantage of a suit of plate was expense. Those things were generally tailor made to each individual by expert craftsmen and it was a process that took a lot of training, time and effort. Only the very wealthy could afford it. They weren't always entirely practical either- suits certainly changed with fashions and popular styles.
So that's why there weren't so many of them… and probably why entire armies of armored men were never fielded (unlike in movies and anime, where there are hundreds of them).
How about powered armor? Such as is found in sci fi and anime (NOT the same as those giant robots… giant robots have cockpits. Power armor is usually worn on the body). Surely large shoulders, hips and pelvic covers have a practical purpose. Right?
How about powered armor? Such as is found in sci fi and anime (NOT the same as those giant robots… giant robots have cockpits. Power armor is usually worn on the body). Surely large shoulders, hips and pelvic covers have a practical purpose. Right?Power and reaction time like Gene says is something that would have to be overcome, but when you did big shoulders are still not going to be useful because they won't move well with the man inside the suit.
A good exercise to do is start of with a naked figure with arms and legs out (like the da Vinci drawing) and then draw an armoured shell around it, making note of where al the joints and pivot points should be.
There is only so big you can go in various areas before you run into trouble and basically need a mutant body to fit in the suit.
That's why giant robots are a bit better because you don't have to worry about what fits where.
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