Thread "Worst Experience with Peer Artists" in forum "Comic Talk and General Discussion *"

Posted at 6:12PM, Dec. 15, 2006

so, playerone, you basically just hate it because you think it's been overhyped?

not really giving that anime style an fair chance, I must say.

Well, that's my point, it's overhyped. Everyone's all head over heels about anime while I think it's not as good as everyone says.

I don't really think realstic style is boring or uninspired… but I suppose you gonna have to see it from those people's viewpoint. living in America or even in other english-speaking countries like Austrila, they're so used to seeing superhero comics with that realstic style going on…

I mean the REALLY REALLY realistic. Like "Almost a photo".

and heck, they even grew up with Harrbera-barbabra style cartoons where half of the cartoons were done realstic-style.. where the humans have all the correct proportions going on.

Sorry, but:
1. Hanna-Barbera.
2. None of the cartoons were done in a realistic style.
3. The humans do NOT have proper proportion.

so having been around that for so long, I suppose that they could easily feel like that sort of thing is "so old and uninspired."…..But when they enconter anime it's something new and different, and be more into the other types of stuff they're into… not just superhero stuff.

Here it's the opposite: Lots of people draw in the anime style. It's far from domination, but there's more of it.

it IS silly that they would stun the realstic style in favor for anime/manga though.. Just like how I find it competely silly that YOU would stun the Anime/manga style in favor for the realstic style just because you find the hype of anime/manga tiring and think that Manga is way "too easy".

I never said it was easy. I only said, and I quote: "I dispise the manga drawing style. No offence to any manga artists here, I just really don't like it".

Player one, I've just had to edit your post. You worngly attributed a quote to me that was actually made by ccs1989. I've rectified that now.

So I did. Thanks.

Heh. Rectify.

Posted at 9:12PM, Dec. 15, 2006

To clear up a few things, it's not that I don't like the anime style. I'm part of an anime club and I respect a lot of the things that come out of Japan, especially fantastic works of art such as Berserk or the second Ghost in the Shell movie. It's just that I think the fandom overuses it. I've stated this elsewhere on these forums, but the jist is that I feel good foundations in realistic art are necessary to an artist before they develop a style. However I'm all for the whole One World thing, so if an artist feels inspired by things from Japan, there's no reason they shouldn't incorporate some of that into their own work, provided that they know how to draw realistically first.

What I was basically saying in my post is that people don't understand the importance of realistic art, or art that's heavily detailed while still being abstract. Instead they go for the more mass marketed style which has greater surface appeal, and decide that they should only draw that way. It's a dangerous path.

Posted at 5:12AM, Dec. 16, 2006

Well, two weeks before DD went down, some one (Who shall remain nameless) offered to make a comic with me. I was to write, they would draw. So I did the first page, something nice and simple. They said they'd have it ready by the next day. DD went down and then I moved over to Smackjeeves. Finally, a few days before DD was scheduled to go up, I got an email from said artist. I could've done a better job. It was a 20 second sketch and almost nothing like I had written.

Another problem. I wrote a comic that was to be my main DD comic (GG and EtD were originally never going to happen, as I would have focussed all my time into said comic. The partnership was made just after Christmas. Close to a year later, I haven't even seen any concept art. I spoke to her a week ago, she only just made a start, even though she got her sister as a co-artist back in March.

And then there was the business with Raytch, the former artist of Warriors of the Night. Probably one of the worst problems I've ever had. At least with the other two, I had seen their artwork and if they did start updating regularly, it would've been worth the wait. With her, she showed me four styles, I picked a darker one and she even redrew the characters how she wanted to, completely different to how I asked. Then I got ranted at, lost contact for weeks and some other stuff. So glad I got Jayfri now (He's much more reliable and even if there was a hiatus, he'd be worth waiting for)

I have several other stories, including artists who wanted to try for a go at Eternal Life and Gemini Storm, but that's enough for now.

Until next time
The Aussie Kid

Posted at 6:12AM, Dec. 16, 2006

I mean the REALLY REALLY realistic. Like "Almost a photo".

apparently you haven't seen superhero comics like Promethea. here's a couple of pages as example:

That is just a example of the many various things that are sold in bookstores and in specialty comic book stores here….. and it's been going on for years.
so do you see how some people might get tired of that if this was the kind of quality work that they were so used to seeing, that they may take it for granted?

But yeah, they shouldn't stun the realistic artworks, that's just silly. They should embrace all forms of artwork, and feel free to experiment with different styles. after all, the last thing they want is to be a one-trick pony….

Posted at 10:12AM, Dec. 16, 2006

I was finishing up the pencils for my hiatus pic for SLTTA during lunch. I picked up my pad of bristol and showed it to my friend who sits across from me and asked her opinion for the propotions.

Well, before she had a chance another friend of mine blurted out "I don't like it."
I asked, "well, what don't you like about it?" and she replied, "I just don't like it. I hate the way you draw. I only like manga." Needless to say, I was taken aback. (as you can tell, there are still things wrong with the proportions of her left arm.) Ha, I don't mind critism, but I was hoping to get something more constructive.

Posted at 10:12AM, Dec. 16, 2006

THAT my dear is why bristol is so heavy. In moments like that it's perfect for beating people.

No, people who don't like your art just because and have no reasons for it are a great paradox to all artists. You strain and strain to get a piece done, and if someone tears it apart, and I mean seriously just correcting Every little thing, but they tell you whats wrong, then you respect them.

But, the person who just doesn't like it just because, they are always the ones that we strain to impress the most, and thats just a waste of time.

Posted at 12:12PM, Dec. 16, 2006

My God, that Promethea artwork is insane. They didn't do the whole comic like that though. That was only part of one of the chapters, where Promethea is going through various places in the plane of imagination.

Posted at 1:12PM, Dec. 16, 2006

Heh, it's "photo real" because it's so obviously photo :)
Based entirely on photographs. One just wonders how much is retouching or actually copied from a photo. The clues are 2 things: Bad colouring, bad posing. The models display typical photo pose stances there; sort of lacking any immediacy, flaccid, waiting. You can see it a lot on some old magazines that tell stories with posed sequential photos, or children's pulp fiction novels from the 80's with their posed photo painted covers. :)

It's a valid way of working, as is any other, but you could hardly call the stylisation in manga "lazy" if that is the alternative. ;)

Posted at 1:12PM, Dec. 16, 2006

My God, that Promethea artwork is insane. They didn't do the whole comic like that though. That was only part of one of the chapters, where Promethea is going through various places in the plane of imagination.

yeah, that's true, but that sort of thing, creating realstic artwork using photos or some other forms of media is used a lot in comics…espeically in American/English comics.

Posted at 2:12PM, Dec. 16, 2006

reminds me a lot of greg horn's art. I could never get around to the fact that it was blatantly taken from pictures. plus he uses lens flare and other filters constantly. his art looks so fake and plastic.

Posted at 5:12AM, Dec. 17, 2006

I've never taken up art classes. So, I have to say I've never experienced this so-called peer criticism. But I had experienced criticism from a friend during my high school days when she said my pencil shadings looked cartoonish and she challenged me to realism drawing. So, we chose a picture and drew one of the person in the pic.

And after comparing our drawings, she kind of turned silent seeing my drawing. I'm not saying I'm good at drawing realism but I had more practice experience in drawing (manga stuffs) than her. Actually, I'm not saying that drawing manga a lot will improve your drawing skills. What I meant was that if you practise drawing more, the way you hold your pencils will be much steadier than those who had little practice.

Posted at 7:12AM, Dec. 17, 2006

Has anyone ever seen the artwork of Alex Ross? His art looks completely realistic but still retains the power comics are supposed to have.

Though personally I'm a fan of comics that have a really good basis in realism with great backgrounds, but also have an original style, like Invincible.

Posted at 11:12AM, Dec. 17, 2006

I've had a few people question me as to why on earth I'm drawing my comic in the manga style. One of those is a friend who is an artist himself.

The first webcomic that I did was done in the realistic style. After I was finished with the story, I started working on How Unfortunate. At first I was going to do it in realistic style too. But the style didn't seem to work with the story. So, being a fan of anime since I first saw Speed Racer and Battle of the Planets, I decided to try drawing HU manga styled. And in my opinion, the style works better with the story. But my friend didn't see it that way. He said didn't give much of an excuse as to why he didn't like it. Just, "Manga sucks". I didn't let it bother me. My opinion is much like what others have said in this thread. If you're going to say to me that you don't like the artwork, at least give me a better reason than just manga sucks.

And BTW. To the guy who said the Hanna-Barberra didn't have any realistic-looking characters or cartoons. I have two words for you.

Jonny Quest.

Posted at 3:12PM, Dec. 17, 2006

~.~; I'm sick of the manga/real debate. It's wrong to discriminate against ANY style just because it's not your preferred artstyle. Manga might be "easier" in some respects, but some people aren't out to be professional comics. Now! Granted, there are a lot of oversensitive, self-centered, juvenile brats out there who draw in an anime-ish style who refuse to even attempt other styles. I have tried to brave the frontier into "realistic" occasionally, and am glad to see that I'm not ENTIRELY based on the art style I'm most comfortable with.
Attempt at different style Not exactly completely different, but ignoring the flat 2-dimensionality of Steve's shirt, it's an attempt at "something else".

As far as I'm concerned, I draw in an anime influenced style because that's what I LIKE. Not to the exclusion of others, mind you, but it's what I enjoy drawing.

Moving onto the topic of this thread…I've had a person come up to me while I'm drawing before and, without my asking him, volunteer to start demonstrating how to draw things correctly in my own sketchpad. I asked him what he meant by "correctly", and he said "None of that anime crap". I thanked him for his help, but suggested that he leave me to my own work. v.v; It's not that I don't mind advice in improving, but telling me that the style I'm actually enjoying drawing in is "crap" doesn't help me to improve, exactly. That's a matter of opinion.

I've also had that experience of a friend approaching me, seeking compliments but asking for "advice", and snapping when I give them advice. I know I'm not perfect, and that I have a lot to improve on myself, but snapping at me because I tell "you" that "A good rule of thumb for distance between eyes is to imagine a third eye between them" is not very fair. What bugs me a lot are people who actually draw REALLY well who have no confidence in their abilities. They make those of us who are still at "amatuer" stage feel even worse about OUR art…and it's sort of a "fishing for compliments" maneuver.

Posted at 1:12AM, Dec. 18, 2006

On the anime/non-anime thing.. I must comment that I personally do not feel a western hemisphere artist can get away with drawing anime professionally. Maybe I'm wrong, correct me if so, maybe there are plenty of famous western hemisphere anime artists I hadn't heard of. In my own art, I've decided to attempt a more western-styled art for one of my more popular comics, not so much realistic, as just.. not anime. Though after so many years teaching myself how to draw in anime style only, it's really hard for me to produce something with the same amount of detail but in a style more befitting of my incredible whiteness. It all looks animeish still. Like my icon. And that makes me go urgh. But in my mind to be taken seriously as a non-asian comic artist, I shouldn't draw in anime style. To each their own, though. I do like anime a lot and respect those who can draw it really well, just as much as I respect those who draw any style of art really well. Look at the comic Peanuts, after all. It's hardly got any detail at all, but it's one of the most famous comic strips..ever. And the style really fits it, and it's drawn excellently. *stops ranting about this now*

As for my worst experience.. Foremost, I should mention that I do many kinds of art besides anime or comic art, and my friends know this. Alright. I was at this poetry slam with a bunch of my friends, a couple of which who were actually poets in the slam. (who by the way, decided to ignore me the whole time for their fellow poet friends the whole time) I was sitting with the friends who weren't in the slam while waiting for it to start, and we were discussing poetry. I mentioned that I'm no good with poetry, mainly because I have trouble expressing my feelings with words, and one friend said to me "Well that's because you're simple." She and pretty much the rest of them in the group stated that because I cannot express my feelings through poetic words, that I therefore am incapable of being deep or profound. I countered that emotion and feeling and depth can be expressed just as well through art. They said poetry -is- art. Lacking better words, I said "visual art". To which they all laughed and compaired me to a stripper… ahem. So the basic consensus was that I'm simple and incapable of "real art". That pisses me off to this day. Those rubes! grr.

Posted at 7:12PM, Dec. 19, 2006

Worst experience? … someone once said my stuff looked like "Jewish Anime". And no, I don't actually draw anime :P It was quite funny actually.. xD
And to add to the manga/not manga debate, just so i can do what everyone else is doing, I personally have been inspired by both manga and american artists. good ones, mind you, not wannbees ^^' I like to think my own style is original..?
maybe it is, maybe its not, but hey. I like my happy little world. :)

Posted at 7:12PM, Dec. 19, 2006

Worst experience? … someone once said my stuff looked like "Jewish Anime".

Oh! haha.. Because of the noses.

I mean.. That is so insensitive. And politically incorrect.

I think your art style is just awesome, though. *actually.. really interested in angels of the fallen. faves it so he can start reading it tonight. totally not a part of this subject anymore, so just mosies off*

Posted at 7:12PM, Dec. 19, 2006

o.o aw, im flattered ^^

lol it was a bit insensitiv of them, but like i said, i just laughed when they said it :P

Posted at 6:12AM, Dec. 21, 2006

character / idea theft.

Posted at 7:12AM, Dec. 21, 2006

The worst and most annoying thing I've witnessed was an artist who had traced an existing art piece, altered the colouring and clothing a little, and posted it as their own without giving credits. Someone exposed them, but said artist didn't admit to tracing. One person even put the two pictures on top of each other with low opacity and it was just… so obvious. The artist still denied having traced. Bah. It was a fun flame feast, though. Kinda. :D

Other than that, I can't really think of anything… but yeah, most artists aren't very good at accepting criticism. Me, I don't reject criticism as long as it's constructive and objective. I'm ok with people pointing out anatomy issues, or imbalances in the composition, unfitting facial expressions or something like that… Then again, I'm used to it from freelancing as an illustrator. You can't work in the field without taking criticism well. ;) What I don't like is subjective or generalized criticism - as in, "I just don't like it", "I prefer manga style", "It looks weird" etc. I've never received comments like these, mind you, but it seems to be happening to others. And it's not really helpful, is it?

Re: Manga/realism… What I prefer, personally, is an art style that fits the story and has character in itself. Most manga art is seriously lacking in the character and uniqueness department. Most of the comics I've seen in manga style look like ripoffs of each other. It's not that all manga art is bad, it just doesn't appeal to me because all the characters look the same except for the clothing and hairdo/-colour. How am I supposed to find characters interesting when they aren't visually interesting? It doesn't have to be realism, though. You make it sound like there's only two ways to go… Anyway, I can accept a comic in manga style if the writing is really good and if the characters are well defined. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

I'm awfully picky.

Posted at 10:12AM, Dec. 21, 2006

The worst and most annoying thing I've witnessed was an artist who had traced an existing art piece, altered the colouring and clothing a little, and posted it as their own without giving credits. Someone exposed them, but said artist didn't admit to tracing. One person even put the two pictures on top of each other with low opacity and it was just… so obvious. The artist still denied having traced. Bah. It was a fun flame feast, though. Kinda. :D

sounds like rob lefield

Posted at 12:12PM, Dec. 21, 2006

The worst and most annoying thing I've witnessed was an artist who had traced an existing art piece, altered the colouring and clothing a little, and posted it as their own without giving credits. Someone exposed them, but said artist didn't admit to tracing. One person even put the two pictures on top of each other with low opacity and it was just… so obvious. The artist still denied having traced. Bah. It was a fun flame feast, though. Kinda. :D

sounds like rob lefield

I was thinking Greg Land.

Posted at 3:12PM, Dec. 21, 2006

Worst experiences… hm…

Really, there's only one other person in my school who's openly artistic. My style is like a dumbed down version of manga with a small bit of Western elements thrown in (if I ever get a scanner, I may upload some of my sketches on here). Her style is completely manga. We're both pretty much amazed by eachother's work, although I really don't know why she's amazed at my sketches. Personally, I think she's a much better artist than me (I have alot of trouble with shading and proportion). Really, there haven't been any bad experiences…

In elementary school and middle school, I had a very snobby art teacher. If she didn't like what you were drawing, she would take the pencil out of your hand and just proceed to mess around with your picture. She actually did end up ruining a few of my sketches.

I've been going to private school all my life, so I've met quite a few of elitist people. This one girl decided it would be fun and cheerful to draw happy faces all over my paper. Just how is drawing happy faces all over my sketchbook without my permission going to cheer me up?!