Just curious because I was on reddit asking a simple question on "too afraid to ask".
"Why is do I tell horror fans I think the supernatural is scarier than a dude with a knife, they tend to yell at me I'm wrong?"
You can read it here, just a warning, I get a bit salty towards a few people who kind of piss me off.
The body of the original post was:
I don't tell them that I think ghosts, werewolves and Kyonshi are scarier objectively than a mad man with a knife, it is just a personal taste thing.
I had gotten page after page of novel length essays of how I'm wrong, how I am just lying and my personal favorite, "but in reality".
Just, why? It's all movies, none of it is real. I watch movies for fun and entertainment, how does that hurt their enjoyment?
And the first three post is reasonable, explaining themselves pretty well. And after that is the standard "ghost aren't real, mad men are real so there!!" started to happen, with no explanation or anything for why. Just the standard "stop liking things I hate!"
I responded to them a bit angry, because I had heard this dozens upon dozens of times across the net when ever the subject is brought up and just kind of snapped, I asked at point blank how does me enjoying seeing a werewolf changing or a car driving itself bothers them? I did add in why slasher bother me, because the genre of horror is just flooded with them because there is enough loud fans who quick to gatekeep, silence and brow beat everyone else, it is dirt cheap to produce* and the turn around is high, for every five dollars spent there is a hundred dollars gained.
In other words a McMovie.
This is the heart of something I am venting about, it feels like I'm being pushed out of something I use to enjoy by some very disturbed people, and I was wondering if anyone else has some reason why this happens?
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I don't like slashers, and I'm really starting to hate horror.
This is a thing I come across with a lot of Youtube vloggers that I've followed. They seem to be hooked on this idea that "realism" equals better, or more mature. Guys who praises warhammer 40k for example for being "realistic" in attitude. Which is total bullcrap if you ask me. Yeah, its dark, really dark, but that doesn't necessarily make it "realistic". In fact it isn't, not one bit.
And I think that for many of these slasher fanatics its a similar thing here. These people praise slasher films because being chased by a killer with a sharp object is by them considered "more realistic" and therefore "better horror", regardless if its actually scary or not. You know, despite the fact that so many of these slasher killers tends to be these superhumans that keeps coming back no matter how hard you kill em'.
I think it's like what Hushicho has said many times, both here on the Duck and in his YT videos, that people confuse "realism" with verisimilitude, which is when something is made believable enough to feel as if it could be real, even if its total fantasy. Realism, by definition, is a complete rejection for anything fantasy, anything that is illogical, impractical or non-factual in anyway shape or form.
So it's a bogus stance to take on most if not all fiction, which last time I checked slasher horror are part of, just like supernatural horror.
I love the horror video game Condemned (gonna post an article mentioning it on the DD newsblog tomorrow) because it kind of combines supernatural horror and slasher horror (albeit with blunt objects instead of sharp ones) in a very fresh and cool way. You're fighting a bunch of psychotic hobos with pipes and two-by-fours, while also chasing a serial killer and facing these unexplainable, screwed up things happening. It's both visceral AND surreal. I love it! Also my favourite horror film of all time is Evil Dead.
Slasher movies can get very old very fast. The so-called origins are often just a pile of tired tropes that have been in psycho killer movies since there have been crazy killer movies. Yes, seek out B-movie murder mysteries of the 1930s-40s and they're there already. And that was recycled from late Victorian horror theater which came from early 19th Century penny dreadful horror stories. Wow, you mean?
Yup, it's the same old stuff but now we got gore, blood and sex. Which back in the late 19th century was done in various gory/bloody stage plays! See the same things often enough and the disbelief no longer gets suspended and you might as well be watching utter fantasy as opposed to something that tries to be "realistic
And who ever said that the supernatural wasn't realistic never had weird things happen to them late at night and early in the morning. You'd almost believe the veil gets very thin between this world and another where things beyond nature are possible. And I'm a thoroughly skeptical person. I read Skeptical Enquirer ,fan of Joe Nickell and James Randi but also collect the "Ghosts of whatever" books whenever I travel.
After all I live in the birth place of Weird NJ and the fourth grade New Jersey history curriculum was the story of the Jersey Devil.
bravo1102 wrote:Reminds me of Mac the knife… The famous song about a knife slashing serial killer. He started as a honourable gentleman highwayman in the early 18th century but was later transformed (in the 1920s) to the modern tastes of the times into a slasher.
Slasher movies can get very old very fast. The so-called origins are often just a pile of tired tropes that have been in psycho killer movies since there have been crazy killer movies. Yes, seek out B-movie murder mysteries of the 1930s-40s and they're there already. And that was recycled from late Victorian horror theater which came from early 19th Century penny dreadful horror stories. Wow, you mean?
Of course you can't forget Jack The Ripper though, a real life slasher and legend.
———
I think there will always be a push and pull between fantasy and "reality" with horror. There's only so horrible you can make fantasy creatures like vampires, demons, ghosts and werewolves before they become too stylised and lose their scariness so people go back to more relatable horror… till that becomes tawdry and sickening so they go back to fantasy again?
Ozoneocean wrote:bravo1102 wrote:Reminds me of Mac the knife… The famous song about a knife slashing serial killer. He started as a honourable gentleman highwayman in the early 18th century but was later transformed (in the 1920s) to the modern tastes of the times into a slasher.
Slasher movies can get very old very fast. The so-called origins are often just a pile of tired tropes that have been in psycho killer movies since there have been crazy killer movies. Yes, seek out B-movie murder mysteries of the 1930s-40s and they're there already. And that was recycled from late Victorian horror theater which came from early 19th Century penny dreadful horror stories. Wow, you mean?
Of course you can't forget Jack The Ripper though, a real life slasher and legend.
———
I think there will always be a push and pull between fantasy and "reality" with horror. There's only so horrible you can make fantasy creatures like vampires, demons, ghosts and werewolves before they become too stylised and lose their scariness so people go back to more relatable horror… till that becomes tawdry and sickening so they go back to fantasy again?
That's the thing about slashers, they are heavily stylized. Personally after encountering things that could be considered paranormal, rabid animals, bullies and an abusive father I don't find a dude with a knife scary, in fact when I watch slashers without some kind of actual supernatural hook I'm ether really bored.
But the supernatural, I love it. The universe is weird, even the stuff we know of is stuff of fantasy to the average person, and childish to the armchair skeptic, so the unknown is wonderful yet dreadful and worth exploring and what better place than fiction.
I live by the mantra of "there is far worse things than you can imagine".
Also I believe Jack The Ripper was made up to cover up the Victorian police's corruption and laziness.
"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Fitting Shakespeare quote.
There's a bit of movie mythology in here too, that well trained military wouldn't be able to track down and take care of folks like these easily.
I used to plug the shortest slasher film mash up ever Rambo V : Friday the 13tb XIII. Lasts all of five minutes as Rambo tracks down and blows away New Jersey native Jason Voorhees (named for a Rutgers dorm) blowing him into little bitty pieces that there is no coming back from.
"Every problem in human existence can be solved with the right amount of high explosive."
bravo1102 wrote:
"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Fitting Shakespeare quote.
There's a bit of movie mythology in here too, that well trained military wouldn't be able to track down and take care of folks like these easily.
I used to plug the shortest slasher film mash up ever Rambo V : Friday the 13tb XIII. Lasts all of five minutes as Rambo tracks down and blows away New Jersey native Jason Voorhees (named for a Rutgers dorm) blowing him into little bitty pieces that there is no coming back from.
"Every problem in human existence can be solved with the right amount of high explosive."
Funny thing is they did blow Jason up, many times. The big one was Jason goes to hell which had Jason come back in the stupidest method, but several of the novels had this happen and his mask would some how survive and go on to posses people.
On a different note I would love to see a werewolf vs "normal" slasher bit, maybe at first the werewolf plays victim and just keeps coming back the next day and act like nothing happened just to mess with the slasher.
Kemonokomic wrote:
Funny thing is they did blow Jason up, many times. The big one was Jason goes to hell which had Jason come back in the stupidest method, but several of the novels had this happen and his mask would some how survive and go on to posses people.
On a different note I would love to see a werewolf vs "normal" slasher bit, maybe at first the werewolf plays victim and just keeps coming back the next day and act like nothing happened just to mess with the slasher.
I think there's an expansion to this board game called Last Friday where you get to play as a Jason Vorhees style slasher or a nightmare demon or a camper trying to survive either one. Thought I just mention it.
Kemonokomic wrote:bravo1102 wrote:
"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Fitting Shakespeare quote.
There's a bit of movie mythology in here too, that well trained military wouldn't be able to track down and take care of folks like these easily.
I used to plug the shortest slasher film mash up ever Rambo V : Friday the 13tb XIII. Lasts all of five minutes as Rambo tracks down and blows away New Jersey native Jason Voorhees (named for a Rutgers dorm) blowing him into little bitty pieces that there is no coming back from.
"Every problem in human existence can be solved with the right amount of high explosive."
Funny thing is they did blow Jason up, many times. The big one was Jason goes to hell which had Jason come back in the stupidest method, but several of the novels had this happen and his mask would some how survive and go on to posses people.
On a different note I would love to see a werewolf vs "normal" slasher bit, maybe at first the werewolf plays victim and just keeps coming back the next day and act like nothing happened just to mess with the slasher.
They were amateurs. Just like the writers of slasher movies as Patton said "know no more about real battle than they do about fornicating" Hills have Eyes 2 was pretty pathetic that way with the mutants supposedly wiping out a Special Forces Cadre.
Total nonsense.
Just like a cartoon I saw about why tankers don't worry about a zombie apocalypse. Keep the weapons rocking and the driver loves the crunching noise they make as you drive over them. 🤣 ROTFL
(I was a tanker. The only zombie movie that that made sense was Sean of the Dead where the Grenadier Guards come in a day later and just blow all the undead away, shredding them with 5.56mm)
But then I have a few slasher scenarios for Belinda Brandon including the one with the maid outfit and the samurai sword.
The supernatural has plot armour which can protect it against any weapon and all logic and physics XD
I prefer it when things are more science based though and weapons work, or if there's at least consistency to weapons not working against the supernatural- so at least the internal logic of the story works:
Like a punch, sword or blunt object shouldn't have any effect at all if a bullet doesn't work.
——-
Kemonokomic wrote:That would be awesome :D
On a different note I would love to see a werewolf vs "normal" slasher bit, maybe at first the werewolf plays victim and just keeps coming back the next day and act like nothing happened just to mess with the slasher.
And I'd love it if the slasher never figures out that it's a werewolf because he doesn't think that such things exist. I'd love it if the idiot slasher just got slowly driven insane…
Maybe the slasher is at a holiday camp, killing campers, but all the campers are werewolves and they all just keep randomly coming back alive… Like at night when a murder happens and people discover the dead body they'll scream and do all the expected stuff… and the killer kills another person for them to discover later, but the next day the second victim is alive and well… while everyone is mourning the first victim.
So the killer kills the second again the next night and people discover the body this time… But the next day the first victim is alive again and everyone pretends they were never dead, only this new victim.
The supernatural could just be another arms race like the War in the Atlantic in World War 2. Measure versus countermeasure going back millennia, new generations of spells and charms as the beings overcome the last one. The trappings of the Christ are only the latest and the reason why tge Star of David no longer works is because it is a far older symbol and the swastika was co-opted by the forces of evil.
One could go crazy with the lore and technobabble like they did in Ghostbusters.
Horror goes deep into the subconscious, so ghosts and vampires are every bit as 'real' and valid as knife wielding maniacs in that realm. That said, the slasher movies I've seen have no more realism than a classic Universal horror flick and a lot less imagination in most cases. I think people like them because the jump scares are framed within a very safe and predictable format. You can process and play on your deep seated fear of a supposedly real threat, without it having a great deal in common with the horrible reality of a knife or similar attack.
Ironscarf wrote:
Horror goes deep into the subconscious, so ghosts and vampires are every bit as 'real' and valid as knife wielding maniacs in that realm. That said, the slasher movies I've seen have no more realism than a classic Universal horror flick and a lot less imagination in most cases. I think people like them because the jump scares are framed within a very safe and predictable format. You can process and play on your deep seated fear of a supposedly real threat, without it having a great deal in common with the horrible reality of a knife or similar attack.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, it is safe and controlled. I've noticed horror loves "rules", don't have sex, never say 'be right back', never split up. Even, writing for the genre has almost scared cows of quotes and golden rules, must be isolated, must be dark, must be helpless at all cost. It is the opposite of "fear, scares and horror" but a type of power fantasy, one plays up a "I'm a survivor badass", the other "I am the killer."
But it also feel likes Slasher films are just the sitcoms of horror, and to me "realistic" killers is the Big Bang Theory of slashers.
I disagree.
Neither more realistic slashers nor ghost/monster horror is inherently "safer" than the other. That depends on the individual story rather than the genre style.
Personally the more I can imagine something being real the more it horrifies me, so I stay well away from more realistic depictions. The more stylised and fanciful it is the less bad it makes me feel.
Ozoneocean wrote:That's why I eat up "making of…" "how they do that?" Shows about horror special effects. If I know it's just an effect and here's how it's done, it's no longer so scary. A mask of a scary face is no longer so terrifying if I sit there and note the airbrushed shades and highlights.
I disagree.
Neither more realistic slashers nor ghost/monster horror is inherently "safer" than the other. That depends on the individual story rather than the genre style.
Personally the more I can imagine something being real the more it horrifies me, so I stay well away from more realistic depictions. The more stylised and fanciful it is the less bad it makes me feel.
Sort of went into that with the behind the scenes stuff in my comic "GOOB" and the cast pictures with the actors posing with the prosthetics in "Interstellar Blood Beasts"
Ozoneocean wrote:
I disagree.
Neither more realistic slashers nor ghost/monster horror is inherently "safer" than the other. That depends on the individual story rather than the genre style.
Personally the more I can imagine something being real the more it horrifies me, so I stay well away from more realistic depictions. The more stylised and fanciful it is the less bad it makes me feel.
My point wasn't that one genre is safer than the other and I didn't make that claim. What I'm saying is that a slasher is not by design less stylised and fanciful than say a gothic horror. If you had a realistic slasher, then you'd have something akin to a very disturbing documentary which would not do well at the box office.
Ironscarf wrote:It stops being a horror movie and becomes a true life crime story or even a police procedural.Ozoneocean wrote:
I disagree.
Neither more realistic slashers nor ghost/monster horror is inherently "safer" than the other. That depends on the individual story rather than the genre style.
Personally the more I can imagine something being real the more it horrifies me, so I stay well away from more realistic depictions. The more stylised and fanciful it is the less bad it makes me feel.
My point wasn't that one genre is safer than the other and I didn't make that claim. What I'm saying is that a slasher is not by design less stylised and fanciful than say a gothic horror. If you had a realistic slasher, then you'd have something akin to a very disturbing documentary which would not do well at the box office.
Another mash-up proposition: CSI: Camp Crystal Lake.
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