Ugh. self flagellation is ok… but as I say, colonialism is part of the human experience.
He, it's horrible for those who come off on the bad end, but really, I'm not sure where it hasn't happened. Best to try and understand the totality of the concept. Getting all hot under the collar over the idea that it happened anywhere specific is beyond inane.
As to the experience of native people in Australia specifically, that's a different thing. Move on from colonialism and accept it has part of one of the facts of civilisation and nationhood eternally, globally, universally, but all the aboriginal peoples of Australia do deserve their full recognition. :)
For the Aussie constitution, nationhood etc… Beware Nationalism. THAT is a force worse than colonialism, leads to much more evil.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
Aussie Aussie Aussie
Cartoon Professor thinking about the past is counterproductive.
I know that it was horrible for the Indigenous Australians but that was in the past. We don't still punish the Germans for what happened in WW2. If we do there would be no progress in the world. Fogetting the mistakes of past would allow us to make the same mistakes, however as each generation comes along the mistakes of the past should not continue to be held against them.
I would hate to be punished for the mistakes my grandparents made let alone being punished for the mistakes of my great-great-great-grandparents.
If you want the mistakes of the past to be not happen, BUILD A TIME MACHINE AND STOP IT!
Cartoon Professor thinking about the past is counterproductive.I don't agree with that either. Beating yourself up over the symbolism or the rights and wrongs of past events and assiging blame IS counter-productive, but they should always be acknowledged, accepted, and learned from!
What is always more important is dealing with the present. To do that you NEED to understand past causes.
I didn't mean don't think about the past. I mean don't focus on the past without it allowing you to move forward. We can't apologise for other people, sure the people of that time made a mistake…a mistake that I can't erase. It's a terrible thing that happened but it happened to a different group of people by a different group of people. All we can do is move forward to unity, the people stuck in the past won't have that option will they?
Wah? Little proof? I have an uncle by marriage who that happened to :(
And one of my teachers back in highschool as well.
If people think an apology will help them then I think that's fine We should give it! ^^ And "giving a cash hand out" is nothing, poor old native peoples of Australia make up about one or 2 percent of the whole population so it's not going to break the bank ;)
Sometimes gestures mean a whole lot to people. :)
but those that want cash handouts are not those that were actually affected by it generally. this may be an overstatement but it seems from the indeginous people I know of they accept that it was a different group of people.
That would be like asking the German or Japanese people of today to pay for the mistakes made in World War II. It was a different generation, those living survivors of that generation(if there were any and I don't think there are but I'm not too sure don't quote me on that) should apologise to the people of that generation.
That would be like asking the German or Japanese people of today to pay for the mistakes made in World War II.Germans still do ;)
As for the Japanese… well, they really should be. They never compensated countries like China, the Philippines, Korea, Malaysia etc for what they did to them during the war because the US insulated them from it. It's a wound that still burns hot with China because it's never been resolved. :(
That's what it's about man: a gesture of atonement.
It's less like you paying for your dad's bulling ways and more like familys settling old differences to get rid of long running feuds that sill harm relations between them :)
Ozone, so often you say the words I am trying to say so well…
Jurbas, it might help if you read my post more carefully…
I am in no way judging events of the past, merely frustrated at our 'whitewashing' of them.
I strongly believe Australia's descendants of the original peoples would be far better off psychologically, socially, and culturally if australians were taught our true history.
Show me a school that teaches black history well…
Show me a student who knows any of the black 'heroes' who stood up and tried to defend their land against overwhelming technological superiority (sometimes for years)…
Yet we all know Geronimo and Sitting Bull…
Many aboriginal tribes fought hard and long against conquest, uniting their people against overwhelming odds… yet even aboriginal children are not taught about them.
Do you have any idea of the damage this 'white propaganda' has done to the dignity and pride of our native australians?
No wonder alcahol is such a problem.
Look at cultures where the surviving 'colonised' remember their history, the Maories for instance… their culture remains relativley strong, their people proud.
The crime was not so much in conquest (that has happened on every continent, many times over, including australia, black driving out black) the crime is in the complete and total denial of history.
It is this denial that to this day continues to destroy the oldest culture on the planet.
Oh, well that is basically a whole different topic CP.
And on that one I see your point and agree with you. History needs to be taught without bias. However the only way I think that would really be taught would be if an elder with story passed down were to teach. Or even get the stories published in books.
I do find it disappointing that we only learn the European side of the colonisation. The was actually a story in the small town I grew up in of an Aboriginal man that fought against the Europeans trying to control his land. But other than that I know no stories of what really is an interesting culture.
About the 'gesture' to the Aboriginal people does it have to be money?
Could it not be a national day for them, memorials for the tribes that were completely wiped out something that lasts longer than money and has a lot more meaning.
An apology would have to be perfectly worded that anyone could not spin it to be more or less than what it is.
Chris Rock pointed out in a stand up routine about the Afrcian American history in America is not studied as much as the white history. I agree that it is the same in Australia.
And I would also like to speak of peace. Peace cannot be achieved without total co-operation.
Allow me to quote Superman on this topic. "There will be peace when the people of the world want it so badly, that their governments will have no choice but to give it to them."
There are my says on the issues we have raised so far. Hopefully this makes my views clear
Just to be sure, because your wording is a little jumbled: the settlers didn't have anything to do that the "stolen generation" idea.That happened all through the 1950s up to the 70's or something. Maybe earlier, by 10 years, possibly.
The name is deliberately emotive in order to get a response, but it's not actually accurate, which is a problem. It was something like 15% or 20% of those children who were taken from their parents to be raised with European families or in orphanages and care homes. -so NOT an entire generation, but it was indeed a generational phenomena: all those children of similar age, all being taken away to live in homes.
As for the early settlers, they treated the native peoples as poorly as any empire sellers did from any of the world's great powers (they were British remember, Australia didn't exists until over a century later). The same story was repeated in New Zealand, Malaya, the Philippines, Indonesia, all Africa, all India, all the Americas, even in Japan to some extent and China too (Hong Kong, Macau). So while it's not excusable, it's not especially notable in a general sense, only specific: i.e. people who can trace cases and events, not the fact that they happened at all.
Lastly, you also have to remember that almost all of the damage was done by British military forces. The events of settlement are what our country has inherited, not just us from our ancestors but our entire nation from its proginator. :)
-Still, the price of nationhood means we take ownership of them (past wrongs) and are therefore required to make amends and pay restitution.
until recently I was under the same presumptions as Greaney-that the stolen generation was longer ago.
Question Time
If you had to send 10 VERY Australian items to another person from a distant country what would you send?
Keep in mind that Plants and Animals cannot be sent.
Didn't bother to read the whole post but…
I'm not an "Aussie", but I've met quite a few tourists. I'm also in the same time zone is Sydney (+10 GMT, I think). And I live a few thousand miles north of that huge continental island in a smaller island chain named after a Spanish Queen… well I think it's named after one.
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