I understand the security thing with the HTML, but it's difficult when every other webcomic host out there allows it. Unless they DO manage something pretty brilliant, which would turn it into a competetive feature. But we're still hoping there's various compromises we can make. It's quite easy to scrub html of specific codes, and withhold live changes until approvals, or things like that.
If Lawrence says the user forums will stay then they will. I'd also imagine that the data could just be migrated over, but that and the 'if not, will I be able to link to the old forum' we'd have to specifically ask about I think.
And yeah they intend to release a page today with a list of all the intended features at rollout, which is why we've so far not been asking them about features individually.
Edit: boop-bee-dee-boo-boop twitter news update, comics will have their own forums, data will be migrated. Also the Feedback tab will be put onto the current DD site too. That's new!
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
The Duck PREVIEW Site is now Live!
I am still hopefully optimistic that in the end this will all turn out great and the new site will be just as wonderful as what we have now. Things seem to be headed in the right direction with the actual feedback that we've been getting. I am curious now though as to why Wowio wanted to buy DD when they already had WeVolt which if I recall correctly only just came out this year if not last year. I know that it's a relatively new site and hasn't been around that long because I've been a member of Wowio's main e-books site in order to read some of their free comics that they have on there for about a year now, and I know that WeVolt didn't exist until recently. So why own two different web comics sites? It almost seems to me now that perhaps they were looking to merge the two, because perhaps WeVolt isn't working out like they had hoped? I stated in a previous post that while I still have no intention of leaving, and remain optimistic and willing to give the new site a go, I've been looking into the other hosting sites for at least "mirrors" and trying to compare and contrast what functions they have compared to ours here. I haven't really had much time to actually get beyond the registration stage, but from what I could see from just browsing around on the other hosting sites most of them do allow for customization, but WeVolt's seemed to be the most limited. Not very many comics on there had even the bare minimum of custom headers and navigation buttons, and those that do still have the default navigation buttons that the templates on that site put on every comic page which makes it redundant. Now, this could be an issue of those users not knowing how to code it to remove the default navigation buttons, but it was on more than one comic that I saw this issue, and it doesn't seem like something that can be changed in the coding on that site. So, when they said that not allowing coding is a security issue, it just makes me wonder if they were trying to make DD here just a variation on the comic site they already had which was working for them without realizing that that isn't going to work for our user base.
*whispers* I think the new design is quite nice *whispers*XDDDD
Runs away
ok i honestly can tollerate a name like "the duck" for the longest time i couldnt read dd online because my workplace has a ton of surfsafe filters on it. about the html, wouldnt it be easier to put together a reporting system where people who do cram stuff like malaware into the codeing out there CAN be banned?
*whispers* I think the new design is quite nice *whispers*
Runs away
No speak up man.
There is good stuff and it isn't getting a mention as the internet tends to lean to negativity in general.
I was going to mention some bad stuff but that would be counter to what I just said.
the way the site functions (when it functions properly) is really good. A lot of peoples design suggestions would greatly help it though.
I know the prime "voice of dissent" is leaving. But for anyone else who sees the Wowio staff as some kind of uncaring evil entity, I'd like to add this:
I took my feedback here and posted it on GetSatisfaction. It was reasonable, even-tempered and constructive feedback. Not long afterward I got a very nice, personal email from Lawrence himself that not only thanked me for the feedback, but assured me that the staff was carefully considering all the things I said. It wasn't any kind of a scripted response. I went away from the experience feeling very positive. I get the impression that they're trying to make something good out of Drunk Duck, not the corporate fatcats they're being painted as by some people.
We haven't had this kind of support in a long time. Certainly not from Platinum. I think if Tim Wellman would have just gone GetSatisfaction and voiced his concerns with a productive attitude, not only would he have realized things are going to be okay, he might have actually been able to help shape the upcoming site to be a bit more like he wants it.
I'm now looking forward to this transition quite a bit and excited to see what features make it into the final version.
I am curious now though as to why Wowio wanted to buy DD when they already had WeVolt which if I recall correctly only just came out this year if not last year.
They've teased here and there that they have some plan that will tie everything they own together. Another "surprise" for us to look forward to. :D
There is good stuff and it isn't getting a mention as the internet tends to lean to negativity in general.There are some things about the new site that I LOVE - the 'like' stuff, the ability to comment on newsposts and quackcasts and tutorials and stuff, improved admin functionality, the speed(!), and even the basic ability to change the template colors and nav buttons is a lovely addition, just seems sucky in comparison to losing raw html… but the custom colors is something EVERYONE can use easily, and in fact was used on DD in the early days but got lost in the big crash.
If I were a developer I would consider "no news is good news" on stuff like that, if people think it ain't broke then they won't tell me to fix it. But I'm sure they like people telling them they like stuff too. :]
I am curious now though as to why Wowio wanted to buy DD when they already had WeVolt which if I recall correctly only just came out this year if not last year.I'm a little hesitant to answer this only because I might be wrong (it's a good quackcast question really), but I believe they bought them at the same time. WeVolt was still under development and wowio felt like the two sites would complement each other. Also the WeV programmers are a clever duo and there is some neat stuff over there to use, but it's not straightforward. I think wowio may have been hoping they could borrow from each other and pick up each others' best features. I know the new DD site will be using functionality introduced on WeV, but with improved user-friendliness.
They've teased here and there that they have some plan that will tie everything they own together. Another "surprise" for us to look forward to. :DThis is complete speculation on my part, but it would make sense if it was a series of monetization tools. Wowio is already an e-book publisher and you can sell your e-comic and stuff through them. They also bought the DD Store (which will be getting attention and, I believe, increased integration with DD now) which is good for mugs and prints and whatever. WeVolt has got a subscription/donation programme (superfan?) which I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up here. PopGalaxy is… I'm not really sure, it's a portal for the blogs/videos/promotions they want to push, and draws in stuff like interviews with Media/Comics People and such.
I am curious now though as to why Wowio wanted to buy DD when they already had WeVolt which if I recall correctly only just came out this year if not last year.
They've teased here and there that they have some plan that will tie everything they own together. Another "surprise" for us to look forward to. :D
Hmm, I sure hope that they are not trying to go the route of Whiskey Media which owns various forum sites Comic Vine (comic books), Giant Bomb (video games), Anime Vice (anime and manga), Screened (movies and tv), and Tested (technology) because that would be a shame. I've not nothing against WM and their sites, since I'm a avid member of all of them, but if that is indeed their business plan it's just more of the same, except that they'll have more than just forum sites. I'm sure Wowio will be just fine, but now that I bring this up it's kind of funny and a shame that it was them and not Whiskey Media that ended up purchasing DD, since then perhaps the name didn't have to be changed since a "Drunk Duck" and "Whiskey" go hand in hand. LOL!
Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you before. I think I just missed it.
1. In the interest of full disclosure, we spend about 40-60 hours a month doing admin stuff (the last 2 months have been about 60), so Wowio does pay us to acknowledge that, let's call it a stipend. :] (A consultation fee would be far too grand.) It's not much and certainly not enough to buy our loyalty, but it does make us much happier to do the icky work like bug reporting on a glorius Sunday, or spend time developing high-level stuff like the Quackcasts. This was actually something Platinum did way back (which didn't prevent some admins from quitting!) and Wowio has just continued. I know I just gave our detractors some ammunition there. :O It wasn't something we publicised, mostly because we didn't think it was a big deal (and most of the time, nobody's business).
I guess you just have to trust me when I say it really isn't a factor in how we deal with Wowio, except when I tweet something really grumpy to the big boss and someone says "yeah you probably shouldn't do that" and I go "what are they gonna do, fire me hahahahaha" but then delete it anyway because I am a baby. Actually if we did work MORE for wowio then maybe we would have been included at earlier stages or higher levels with some decisions and we wouldn't have had to fight battles later. I've been on DD since 2002 and oz since 2004, so DD and you guys are always first with us. We'd be fighting the battles for you anyway, it's just easier for us to do so since Wowio officially acknowledges that we are consultants and has ensured we have direct, frequent communication to people like Kinh and Lawrence who are on 'team duck' there. Although you guys don't see it, they do take our advice very seriously and have done various things based on our input, either directly or working within the company. Unfortunately it is a business and sometimes their hands are tied too. This is why the advocating oz and I do is better because it's official, because rather than being passionate but ignorable, it's a case of 'they're consultants, so they know what they're talking about.' Although you can't see this either, the working relationship with Wowio is a vast, vast, harkoVAST improvement over the noncommunication with Platinum.
blahblahblah, I think I got on a tangent there.
2. They do plan to have some form of improved stats tracking. I've suggested google analytics but I'm not sure what requirements might exist for that, perhaps it's not possible with DD's url structure or something, I dunno. But they do want to have actually useful stats.
3. Wowio is a 'digital publishing' company. They started out publishing ebooks (and still do), and they now manage a suite of sites- Wowio's ebooks, DD and WEvolt (webcomics sites), and PopGalaxy, which is like videos and stuff and is still pretty new.
Thanks, Skool. I didn't mean to pry into your personal affairs, I was just wondering why you two were taking so much flack for Wowio if you were not paid staffers.
As to Wowio… I'm undecided. I'm always dubious about corporations, especially those that like to use the products of people who own intellectual property (like cartoonists) and not pay them for it. The argument that it's a privillege to have a place to show off your work work doesn't fly with an old union man like me. It's a bit like telling an accountant that it's a privillege for him/her to do tax returns for companies (for free). Cartooning is a business, not a hobby. Platinum was clearly looking to milk artists for salable products, and perhaps Wowio is, too. At this point, I can't say.
As to Lawerence and Kinh… they're simply employees doing a job. I don't hold them accountable for anything, even if Wowio isn't on the level, so-to-speak.
Charles Schulz made 12 million dollars a year in the mid 60s with Peanuts. Merchandising IP can be immensely profitable, even today, for the right people. Wowio surely knows this. Trouble is, most artists don't, or at least dismiss it as unlikely. It's my theory that almost any decent IP could become a big money maker, if it has enough backing and press (media for you youngsters).
Finally, I don't hate Wowio. I'm suspisious of the motives of all corporations, but, essentially, I'm indifferent. Still, I see no reason to develop an advarsarial relationship with Wowio this early in the game. I'll give them a shot. The ball is in their court, now. ;)
I don't feel like I'm taking flack for Wowio. :] I'm just seeing there's some stuff that I can maybe clear up with information I have.
About the "using the products of people who have intellectual property" thing, I'm not quite sure I get. Wowio doesn't make any claim to ownership of people's comics or whatever. I mean, I guess they're profiting by people visiting the site by getting ad hits or something. And if they run various stores (for merch) they'd be taking a cut of that profit. Is that what you meant?
I don't feel like I'm taking flack for Wowio. :] I'm just seeing there's some stuff that I can maybe clear up with information I have.
About the "using the products of people who have intellectual property" thing, I'm not quite sure I get. Wowio doesn't make any claim to ownership of people's comics or whatever. I mean, I guess they're profiting by people visiting the site by getting ad hits or something. And if they run various stores (for merch) they'd be taking a cut of that profit. Is that what you meant?
As I understand it, Platinum was actively trying to sell IP to Hollywood execs for a profit. That was their business. If it had worked out, it might have been a bonanza for a lot of us. Lord knows, Sin Town needs some fresh ideas. They've been recycling junk for years, now. Plus, I don't think too many of us would turn down a chance to cash in if some studio offered us big bucks for the movie/TV rights to our stuff.
But, as far as I know, only Coboys Vs. Aliens , a Platinum Studios manufactured product, ever made good. I understand one or two other comics were sold to buyers in Hollywood, but I don't know if anything ever came of it.
What I'm not clear on is whether Wowio has similar plans. It's all good if they do, as long as they don't try to shaft anybody in the trenches when negotiating for their rights. Platinum, as I understand it, did try this. By that I mean attempt to buy someone's rights for a song, then sell them for a mint. Happens all the time in the entertainment biz. And webcomics are part of the entertainment biz.
There's a lot of commercial potential on DD, if it were properly promoted. Many Cartoons here could translate into a TV property, or even a film property, if handled right. Merchandising would naturally follow any such deal. This means big-time cha-ching for whoever gets this deal. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are a key example.
If all Wowio is looking for is a little advertising cash, they are selling DD short. There's a gold mine here if they're willing to invest and treat the creators as equal partners. ;)
As to the re-design… I'm not terribly worried about what the site looks like, as long as it works.
As I understand it, Platinum was actively trying to sell IP to Hollywood execs for a profit. That was their business. If it had worked out, it might have been a bonanza for a lot of us. Lord knows, Sin Town needs some fresh ideas. They've been recycling junk for years, now. Plus, I don't think too many of us would turn down a chance to cash in if some studio offered us big bucks for the movie/TV rights to our stuff.Ummm.
But, as far as I know, only Coboys Vs. Aliens , a Platinum Studios manufactured product, ever made good. I understand one or two other comics were sold to buyers in Hollywood, but I don't know if anything ever came of it.
Not quite right…
First up- Platinum was always a media company with a focus on Hollywood in TV and movies. Their thing with DD was about developing a grass roots fanbase for their existing products by paid, contracted artists. Secondary to that was the thing they had with the Comic Book Challenge competition- all that was about was a comp for getting a new paid and contracted product going.
Further to that Plat did approach some super popular DD artists for various things- Amelius and EENick for another comic project and Chuck and Steve Rowles (Spang and Ronson) to talk about possible movie rights, but that was as far as it went.
Wowio are completely different. They're an e-book publisher for mainly comic type stuff. With DD they're just expanding their digital media business portfolio… Their strategy with DD is to take an existing, successful comic hosting community and grow it by investing in it so that it becomes a more viable media outlet as one of the Wowio family of sites.
DD offers a related service to wowio (online comics) and so could be good for more cross promotional stuff with other Wowio products in future- Maybe DD artists will be able to easily sell Wowio e-book versions of their comics (has been very profitable for authors in the past), there's the popgalaxy TV thing, etc.
DD for Wowio is more of a long term investment though: it's a strong sort of thing on its own, but it's not a viable money making or even self supporting thing. With Wowio money coming in to fix and grow the site they'll first make it self sustaining. Later on It can work more profitably with their other sites etc…
I've no access to the Wowio business plan- but I know their objectives are more along those lines than IP speculation, which is far more prickly and fraught.
Wowio are completely different. They're an e-book publisher for mainly comic type stuff. With DD they're just expanding their digital media business portfolio… Their strategy with DD is to take an existing, successful comic hosting community and grow it by investing in it so that it becomes a more viable media outlet as one of the Wowio family of sites.
DD offers a related service to wowio (online comics) and so could be good for more cross promotional stuff with other Wowio products in future- Maybe DD artists will be able to easily sell Wowio e-book versions of their comics (has been very profitable for authors in the past), there's the popgalaxy TV thing, etc.
DD for Wowio is more of a long term investment though: it's a strong sort of thing on its own, but it's not a viable money making or even self supporting thing. With Wowio money coming in to fix and grow the site they'll first make it self sustaining. Later on It can work more profitably with their other sites etc…
I've no access to the Wowio business plan- but I know their objectives are more along those lines than IP speculation, which is far more prickly and fraught.
Thanks for clearing up that Platinum bit, Oz.
As to Wowios's plans… I hope it doesn't end up like an Etsy sort of thing. With the e-book publications, I mean. Most creative people on Etsy make very little on that site, I understand. It's the sellers, the businesses that sell supplies to the artists, that turn a profit. It seems suppliers are always profiting from artists… the guy who buys wholesale beads and sells them at a premium to the gal making hand-made jewelery… that sort of thing. Kablam makes a lot of scratch off of folks wanting to print their comics, but the creators usually wind up in the hole. Wrong? Maybe not, but d*mn frustrating.
I can see Wowio maybe going Kablam, possibly, and putting out DD member e-books in a similar type of deal… i.e., member pays Wowio to put out e-book, perhaps at some special rate, or some such thing, then sells it on one of the sister sites (probably having to cut Wowio in for a share of the take). Might seem cool to some folks, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The only fair publishing deal I see is one in which the publisher approaches the writer/artist, pays them a fair premium, plus royalties and a percentage on any merchandising for their work, then rolls out the product and sells it, so-to-speak.
I know this is all speculation, and I'm not calling down Wowio, I just don't care for the kind of waters artists have to navigate. We always seem to be on the wrong end of the cash flow these days.
The thing with ebooks though, you don't need someone else to sell them for you. So it's kinda hard to get grumpy at someone for doing something you could just as easily have done yourself.
Webcomic hosting is that way too. It only costs you a bit of pocket change each month.
Printing is a different story though. Unless you're already rich.
The feedback tab here on this site is confusing a couple of people. It appears that the "getsatisfaction" site now has topics that are actually comic comments.Yeah. The feedback tap is present in every single comic page on drunk duck, which means that everyone who's not paying attention to the forum or the news is not gonna know what it's for.
Heh! I just realised- DD is going from being all patchy, weird, a bit dodgy looking and very user customisable and breakable (WINDOWS) to streamlined, built from the ground up, all designed on a theme and being more patrician on the user customisable thing (APPLE),
*Mind blown* O_o
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