Okay. I can change it back in the script. Vora can just as easily say "Virtus", and I can change the earier dialogue back to what it was.
Phobia has fear-mannipulation powers. He prefers to not get his hands dirty and just make his opponents cower in fear as he psychically sends them every sight, sound, taste, touch, etc. that they find most horrifying, all the while reveling in their reactions and treats their fears themselves like fine dining–he loves to savor them. But when he is forced into battle, he will often send his opponent their fears in concentrated bursts, whittling them down mentally until they collapse in fear–these battles are not known to last long, as fear is Phobia's specialty. He has been known to cause his opponents to become so scared that they are basically catatonic. Many beings that have fought him have required high amounts of therapy.
Though I do consider them all villains, at least the other members of the Seraphim have some redeeming "heroic" qualities, which helps their being considered superheroes in their world, but Phobia is a full-fledged villain with basically no heroic compunction. The main reason why he remains a part of the team is out of loyalty to friends, as Sea Embers has been his best friend from an early age, when their powers first manifested.
Hope that helps.
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@AzuJOD
Im thinking of seeding things further with the whole Villains Unite sub-plot Would JOD be the kind of guy to join such a coalition, if only to keep an eye on them? In that case, we could definitely work him in at the end.
Yeah, he would be the kind of guy to join such a coalition. whether to keep am eye on them, follow them loyally, or steal from them behind their backs.
@AzuJOD
Great, I'll see what Macattack and I can work out. ^^
@shastab24
Now that's what I like to see, politically incorrect villains that have a little more characterization beyond their political views. I do like it when we take the time to humanize the villains to make them feel more organic and three-dimensional.
Also thanks, that's really helpful, as I do have some reservations after reading the script. I'll get back to your PQ soon. ^^
Wow! Things have REALLY picked up pace on here! love it! :D
Thanks for the vote of confidence Seb. I was a little surprised how much hair is an intricate part of my normal drawing style as I found out drawing Virtus and Azumorph. Other characters though I like how they turned out. Vora and Comet Kid are definitely my two favorites on that page. Sorry about the writing the whole script thing… to tell you honestly I have no idea how to co-write and thought it was something like "I give as many ideas as I can, you give your ideas, we combine and refine" :P next time then. I must say that this big villain conspiracy series really interests me. The more complex the story the better! Also the letter's thing was originally a salute to Agatha Christie's the ABC Murders, but ya, if it's underwater that could be difficult… unless of course they like were tied to a weight or something :P All I remembered reading was that it was "An Observatory the Imp found" so I was thinking more giant telescope on a hill… easily fixed if it needs to be. Also I love the Crossed Wires! Especially as it ends with a 'Cross Wireless'… okay that was a bad pun =D
@Abt: So far people seem pretty good with the story line. Still waiting for about 2 other votes though. Two questions. 1. How does one find artists willing to draw this? Is it a "You hunt them down" or are the forums still active enough that you can get enough artists that way? and 2. What place does this story take in the arc? It can probably fit in between any big story as long as they aren't immediately called away at the end of it but at the same time it should probably take place before Shastab's for consistency's sake
@Azu: JOD DEFINITELY has to come up later on! His character is too fascinating to leave out. Also with him joining Villains Unite… would some of the other Villains realize he had stolen from them before? Additional drama value and all…
And finally as I've already written an essay and am probably going to be late to work, I may as well throw in, Shock would be an interesting Character for Villains Unite some time… only catch is with his personality I doubt it would be as a recruit. Shock has one ultimate purpose in life and that's to be able to do whatever he wants with the world as his play thing. When he was just an average human teen he literally got away with murders because his father was rich and influential so the police were afraid to bring him to court. And now that he's a monster he wants to destroy every aspect of Wireless' life as Wireless was the only person to stand up to him. Because of this personality, although he couldn't be recruited and I doubt he'd really care about destroying other heroes; (they're more annoyances to him) He may however be taken in if the ultimate villain took advantage of him. The bigger the pride the easier to fall right?
@Abt: So far people seem pretty good with the story line. Still waiting for about 2 other votes though. Two questions. 1. How does one find artists willing to draw this? Is it a "You hunt them down" or are the forums still active enough that you can get enough artists that way? and 2. What place does this story take in the arc? It can probably fit in between any big story as long as they aren't immediately called away at the end of it but at the same time it should probably take place before Shastab's for consistency's sake.1. If I were you, I'd take a look at the list in the "Artists Pool" and send PQs to the ones you'd like to have on board, explaining what you'd need them for (including a brief summary of the story). You can also mention that this will be an official HA story, that you've got the blessing from the characters' creators and also my own, since I'm probably considered the highest in HA hierarchy around here :P Additionally, I'm going to post an ad on HA's main site. However! Before contacting any artist, the script will have to be actually approved from everyone involed (the characters' creators and myself). So, please just be patient a little while longer ^_^
2. I'll give you my two cents on that once I've read the script. As far as can I see, this'll most likely take place somewhere between HA #4 and HA #7, both for reasons of production (it's not as far along as #4, but further along than #7) as well as continuity (which I'll know once I've read it ^^; ).
Saweet! Ya I definitely wouldn't move forward without everyone on board… if for no other reason than I wouldn't want to change the script AFTER trying to explain it to an artist :P I just need Tempest who I'm trying to catch online and Wes Nero who… I haven't seen on here for a while. Actually I should probably add you to that list as the optional 9th page has Bombshell and I'm not really good at sounding professional… even when pretending to be so you may need some tweaks there. Anyways… ya… first collab project I have to admit it's pretty exciting watching this all come together :D
I look forward to your critique, Seb. It bears repeating for anyone that I can understand if my script is seen as too unwieldy. Heck, it feels more like a 90s comic to me than anything I usually write (though I have two scripts in the backlog for my own comics which are probably more 90s, yet have better cohesion–it helps when you're just writing your own characters). I've been thinking of something to write for after my characters are a part of Heroes Alliance–likely a small story focusing on possibly as little as four characters–but I remain attached to this script because some of it just works so well to me. Plus, as time goes on, I get more positive feedback on individual characterizations, which makes me all the more want to see it happen.
But I always take editing suggestions and try to make them work. It's especially in individual characters' speech and actions, but also in the larger picture. I definitely understand if I need to change some things. Just yesterday I realized a plot hole I should have caught before, and will likely have to make a change in the script to explain it away, but I undersand if there are things I did not catch.
PS: You know what would be a kind of cool feature for the artist's pool list? if you added a link to a page each artist did next to their name so you see their style…. dunno if that's possible or even worth it but just something I thought of
PPS: I feel like I'm spamming these boards all the time :P
@Macattack
No worries, I'll just add some of my ideas to the script to fill out the plot, and then we'll be right back to collaboration status. ^^
Great! So we have a title? ^^
I just had this brilliant thought… There is a reason why "Villains Unite" haven't made themselves noticed yet… They're all biding their time for HU to crumble down following the events of Energize's fall from grace… And once HU is gone… The game is on as only HA stands in the way… Or at least that's how I figure it will all go down. ^^
That's actually not a bad idea about links to artist samples! I'm sure Abt will like it! ^^
Oh, and don't worry Mac. It's a good kind of spam, keeps us alert. ^^
@shastab24
Believe me, I'm a horrible critic, I'm just very possessive of my characters and how they're portrayed, and I felt that V got an unfairly short straw in the script. I'll elaborate further in the PQ.
@Sebastian. Yeup. "Crossed Wires" And I'm liking that idea. Would there also be some ways to tie in that Villains Unite had been secretly undermining and manipulating HU? Or is HU totally out of our hands now? I have to admit it kind of sounds similar to the Wireless plot where it starts out in Canada as it is today and then when Wireless and Shock are discovered the country slowly begins to turn darker as the Supervillains begin to take over. (Considering the country has chased all heroes EXCEPT for Wireless out of the country for fear) … okay maybe not totally similar but if I wasn't so tired right now I could probably think of some REALLY cool way to tie it together. Would you want it to be their whole world changes as villains take charge? or one big showdown of titan proportions!…. also it would be cool if some time we could work in the "Following orders vs Doing what's right" storyline. Like what if you're given orders that you know are wrong? GAH thinking too much again :P
So far the suggestions I have recieved are:
Change it from mail to e-mail… or maybe some weighted chest or something if I'm really stuck on choreographing
and I have two exclamations to stick in for Comet Kid's lines.. YAY SPANISH!
I'm still missing Wes Nero's and Tempest's reviews on it but I at least contacted Tempest recently about it. Anything else I'm forgetting?
I finally got around to reading the two scripts. First, I'll write down my thoughts on shastab24's script. You're going to read some rather heavy criticism, and I hope you don't take this personal. It's just that there's a real problem with this script, and I'd do you a disservice if I didn't point it out. (Of course there's also the possibility that my impression is completely wrong, so all of this is up to debate, among anyone who's read the script.)
As you already noticed in your previous post, this needs major editing if you want it to happen as a proper HA chapter. Unlike Macattack, you haven't divided this into pages to begin with, but I could see this somewhere between 50 to 80 pages as it is now. (You have to see that basically every description you give in brackets warrants several panels, and there's a lot of those "asides" ) Now, that in itself would make this extremely unlikely to get made with our limited resources. (Although I can only repeat that I'd be completely fine with that if you were to find artists who were willing to draw all of this. It's just that I know from experience that 30-page chapters are already tough to get made.) But given the fact that (from what I can see) at least 70% percent of these pages would be spent on watching heroes and villains fighting, that just won't cut it. Don't get me wrong, many of your character interactions are great and right on target, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading them. But let's look at the basic structure of this story:
- There's a short exposition which clearly spells out the threat and what has to be done about it. That completely takes out any suspense from the very beginning. Readers will know what's coming. The only thing they don't know is how the fights will go in detail. But it's not outrageous for any reader of this type of story to assume that the heroes always win in the end, which is also what happens. (I think that the only way to make that work is to have exceptional art on every single page, so every character's entrance, and anything they do, is a WOW moment. That's what Jeph Loeb & Jim Lee did on Hush, for instance. But we don't have a Jim Lee for 50 pages.)
- The fights themselves take up most of the story. They are written well, and from what I can see, they are also woven together neatly. It's just that I can't see how we can justify these fights dragging on for 50 pages or so. As I said, these are just fights. That is: Superheroes and villains showing off their powers according to their character profiles. (Plus, as far as I can see, the fights aren't setting anything up for later, save for alliances or hostilities, nor are they resolving any lingering plot points. They are pretty much self-sufficient.) That is not a story, and the fact that there's some great dialogue and character interaction in there doesn't change that. Stand-offs like this are story devices, and they need to serve some progression. But the progression is already in the 2-page exposition, and the 50 pages of fights will barely be more than an elaboration of these.
- The real turning point of the story happens when the F-man comes in. This is a story. Everything about it is unexpected and interesting to find out about. The whole F-man thing might take up ten pages or so. And you have to see all of the fights that happen before it in relation to these ten pages. That is, you'd have to structure the rest around this bit. And then it'll once again be clear that the fights are blown out of proportion.
Bottom line: There's a problem with the structure of this story, and it has to be sorted out. There is absolutely NO problem with how it's written (dialogue, character interaction etc.) - in fact, you did great in that department.
The easiest way to fix this is: Concentrate on three or four heroes, and three or four villains, and either cut the rest out completely, or have them show up in the background.
One glaring example of this is the appearance of Glamazonia: All of the scenes she's in (three, I believe) are just for fun (nevermind for now that HA is PG, and her language would be a problem). The story wouldn't suffer at all if you were to take these out. Obviously, it's sad to see any particular scene go, because these are fun and written well, but you'll see that's what has to happen pretty often when you watch deleted scenes (and their commentaries) on your favorite movie DVDs :-)
Secondly, my thoughts about Macattack's script:
I like it! I really think this is what HA needs, to have some of the younger/quirkier heroes work together and solve something of their own. It's light-hearted fun and I believe it's a great addition to the chapters we're currently planning.
I do think you're a bit too optimistic regarding the page count. I see some of the single pages in your script actually taking up two or three pages. But that's no big problem, it just needs to be adressed.
Oh, and a question: How can Motherboard teleport? Did I miss something? ^^;
And there you go. I knew it was unweildy, and as such knew such a critique was coming. Though it would pain me, I can likely take out a large amount of the fights (Jessica Mason and Glamazonia assuredly stand out to me, though I do love the latter's dialogue). I really should learn moderation in some of my scripts. And like I said, I may abandon it altogether. That said, maybe I should get an editorside of myself, to cut the dead weight as they see it, which I may not be to see.
But the next story I am thinking of is not nearly so sweeping (or so 90s), but I would want to know the status of this story in relation to the rest of Heroes Alliance before I write it.
And the reason why I don't delineate pages and panels is simple: I just don't know how to envision them. I'm not an artist, really (though I have told myself that should this script make it, I would do the first scene). It may be my biggest problem with The Broken at the moment, as well.
But I should also keep in mind that this is my first script to the Heroes Unite/Alliance universe. Subsequent efforts should be better, I think (or hope).
And like I said, I will take the criticism, however bad. I am making a character change, anyways–Peligroso instead of Virtus–since Seb brought up valid concerns about how I handled his character. And I could likely cut out the parts featuring Jessica Mason and Glamazonia's fights, like I mentioned before, but also Gen, Topia, Split, Eiderdown, and Fractal's fights (especially considering the last three are my characters and I already spotlight two of them–and now that I think of it I can also throw out the focus on the Astral/Captain Nazi fight). I'm sure that would greatly reduce the length of the script, though I don't know if that would be enough. It's possible I will take them out but still keep what I had written saved somewhere, so if anyone wanted to draw a side-story or if the creators wanted to put a tie-in comic on their siteuld give them a little something that happened during the story and they could expand upon that (and that way I wouldn't completely lose the Split, Eiderdown and Fractal fights, which I still like, and could put them up in one of my comics when I actually get them rolling).
Wow… I'm not the only one who had a busy day today it seems… Glad to see you liked the script though =) and admittedly, since I learnt how to create my templates on the computer I've really had a bad habit of making super long comic pages :P But unless you say otherwise I think I might just leave it as it is and let the artists decide where would be best to split pages… personally I have no clue :P
As for teleportation… ummm… ya I just figured it seemed more dramatic than running away especially since she was there with two speedsters. Plus I guess if she could build a fake doomsday weapon and a cyborg version of herself, building or stealing a teleporter even if it was just a small one wouldn't be tooooo far fetched :P I hope? How rare is teleportation in this universe? I know in HU they had to borrow the teleporter from AEGIS in the Cavalry episode
PS. Does anyone else use google chrome and find that the spell check hates anything to do with teleportation? :P
Macattack, spell checkers in general seem to hate teleportation. Of course, some hate my last name, as well (Messer). It just goes with their weird priorities. I don't rely on them, but then I am a quite competent speller. When you go through college as an English major, that is one thing you'd better be, above all.
And I have a lot on my plate script-wise. I'm full force into writing scripts for my own superhero universe (which I hope to start the issues for next year–cross my fingers because it's probably a little late into this year for artists to be comfortable). I'm behind on my New Years resolution of writing a script per week, but I'm getting caught up. Only a few more weeks to catch up on, as I have written 9 in my primary superhero universe (with two from last year making it 11), one for my own online comics (added to my one from last year) and my script for this comic. Am I spreading myself thin writing-wise? It's possible, but that's my problem.
Once I'm caught up on that, I'm going to start drawing in force, mainly for my own comics, but I may also sign up for a page for another person's HA script. And should my script be fully approved, I'll also start drawing the first bit of it.
But the next story I am thinking of is not nearly so sweeping (or so 90s), but I would want to know the status of this story in relation to the rest of Heroes Alliance before I write it.Feel free to ask about anything you need to know here in the forums.
BTW - I never quite understood what you meant by the script being "so 90s" ^^;
And the reason why I don't delineate pages and panels is simple: I just don't know how to envision them. I'm not an artist, reallyWell, this is pretty important, and I don't think you need to be an artist to develop this ability. Most comic book writers aren't artists, but write highly detailed scripts. I don't think there's a systematic difference between describing a scene (which is what all writers do) and envisioning a scene. It's not the artist's job to envision it (in fact, any reader should be able to envision a scene when reading a script or a book), but he's the one who can turn the vision into a drawing. That doesn't mean that being able to envision one's script in terms of panels and pages doesn't take practice. But I'd encourage you to try it. Because it's very likely that, unless you can find one artist who will draw all of your script, you have to know where you can divide up your script, and how many artists it will take. While I'm certainly willing to lend my support, this is something that you will have to do as far as necessary. A good way to deal with this is to write a scene, give it to an artist and give them complete freedom in dividing it into panels and pages. For instance, that is what can be done with macattack's script. It is divided into pages, but if I were to draw them, I would divide it further. But it's still a script that can be divided among artists, and we can roughly say how many pages will result eventually.
Try to get a realistic outlook on how many pages your scripts would translate into. I trust you're reading comics, so you should already have some basic ability, it only needs to be developed.
And like I said, I will take the criticism, however bad. I am making a character change, anyways–Peligroso instead of Virtus–since Seb brought up valid concerns about how I handled his character. And I could likely cut out the parts featuring Jessica Mason and Glamazonia's fights, like I mentioned before, but also Gen, Topia, Split, Eiderdown, and Fractal's fights…Again, I hope I wasn't being too harsh. It's the nature of this community project that some projects are realistic, some aren't, and what I was trying to do is make it more realistic that this particular script gets turned into a comic. Think about what's most important about this script, and what you're really trying to say. Then think about what's necessary to make these points. If some scenes aren't necessary, ask yourself if they serve some other purpose that makes the comic better - that makes artists want to draw it and readers want to read it, considering they are not familiar with many of the characters. If you feel you need to cut too much, think of the comic as an adaptation of your original script, not as the comic being identical with the story in your script.
Unless you say otherwise I think I might just leave it as it is and let the artists decide where would be best to split pages… personally I have no clue :PRight. As I said, I think some of your single pages might actually be two, some three. I could probably divide them up, so we can at least have an estimate, but leave the final decision up to the individual artists.
As for teleportation… ummm… ya I just figured it seemed more dramatic than running away especially since she was there with two speedsters. Plus I guess if she could build a fake doomsday weapon and a cyborg version of herself, building or stealing a teleporter even if it was just a small one wouldn't be tooooo far fetched :P I hope? How rare is teleportation in this universe? I know in HU they had to borrow the teleporter from AEGIS in the Cavalry episodeThis is something we need to figure out. I've said this before somewhere on the forums: The fact that teleportation is readily available in the HA Universe has been giving me some headaches. You're right, we can assume Motherboard stole such a device. The question then would be, could everyone steal one? And if so, why are their still planes in the sky, and trains on the tracks etc.? :P This wouldn't be explained by some mild headache teleportation would give you. Most people would prefer a mild headache to flying for hours… which is also known to induce sickness :/
PPS: has anyone heard from Wes Nero lately? I REALLY want the Imp in the story and I've got time it seems, but at the same time I don't think he's been online for a while now :/He sent me a PQ a little more than a week ago, and I don't really know when to expect the next PQ. He still owes me a page ^^;
Since this seems to be a common problem, I thought I'd just give you (that is, everyone writing scripts and not knowing exactly how to do this) a quick improvised "Tutorial on how to divide your scripts into pages and panels". We don't have a fitting thread for this, but the "design and consistency" thread seemed most appropriate. Thus, you can find it there.
What I mean by "too 90s" is the trend in the 90s to have action without the story. Liefeld is most known for this, but others did it, as well.
And you weren't being too harsh. I am grateful for every concern raised. It's important, as any writer, no matter what level they are at, can always improve, and improvements can only be made when problems are addressed. Couple that with the fact that you know moreso the difficulties in getting artists for these projects and the logistics, and your experience can help those like me.
My problems with breakdowns comes from, in my experience, often not realizing what can fit in a page. I have had pages done of scripts I wrote which I am glad I did not break up, because the artist found how to get the information across in a small amount of space, and found better placement of panels than I could ever envision. But then again, this is an acquired skill, like much of anything out there. Maybe I should have a co-plotter until I can develop this ability myself.
Saweet! I'm apparently example worthy! And I totally see now what you mean by breaking it down. That layout works out so much better. I think with the entire motherboard stealing a teleporter idea I was thinking this might by a special case as she's doing this as part of a large conspiracy with the ultimate villain. However if that is the case that might also be giving away too much…. OR it could be something that is overlooked now as the heroes are (pardon the expression) less experienced that are involved with this and may not have developed the paranoid suspicion the longer running heroes have. Then later on when pieces start coming together they could refer back to the teleportation device as one of the clues that this is bigger than they thought.MAN I wish I had an awesome idea for the next part in this series as I am falling in love with this conspiracy!
I think SympleSymon basically aimed for both the reveal and the demise of "Villains Unite" to happen in the same chapter (but anyone who knows better, please correct me if I'm wrong). Personally, I'd really like to have one or two chapters setting it up, so the follow-up to "Crossed Wires" could be the one leading into "Villains Unite". This would include revealing what JOD had Motherboard steal (or rather, what Motherboard had Wireless steal, while MB was in turn coerced by JOD into doing it :D). Also, I would like to see them assault HA headquarters. In a big way.
OOO!!! OOO!!! If they do a giant siege of the HA headquarters it would be pretty awesome if they sent out some kind of distress call and half way through the battle other, not main character heroes showed up like Wireless, Kaleidoscope, Bleeder, and just other heroes who have been met throughout the series but don't stay with the others
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