It's time to think about getting fixes and a redesign for the site again!
We have good plans for it already (https://next.theduckwebcomics.com/forum/topic/177679/?page=3) and know all sort of things we'd like to fix like better page organisation for creators, likes, threaded comments and comment notifications for a better social experience (we have SOME of that already but we need more), a nicer colour theme, a site that works better on mobile devices, Integrated Discord chat, translations of the site into other languages for Italians, Russian, Spanish, Portuguese, French, etc
The trouble is that we need money to make that happen because these are fairly big changes. How would we get there? We'd need about $7000 US dollars for all the programming work.
Banes and I are thinking of a mix between direct donations to Paypal and a Kickstarter campaign - I hate Indiegogo, too may obstacles and it takes a really big cut.
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Please suggest money making ideas here, kick-starter tips, and additions or changes to the site that you think would be really useful and popular.
-Not changing the colours though, we already plan on doing that.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
DD needs money for new upgrades SUGGESTIONS?
Could you divide it up into different stages? Like raise money to do the most essential work first, then keep going incrementally. The site looks really dated (but is actually really functional), so that might scare off some people upon seeing the homepage.
Psychologically, a giant fundraising goal is also kind of scary, and people might not back something if they feel it won't be met - but smaller goals with the old-school temperature gauge on the sidebar could be worth doing. It's like that kickstarter being funded five times over versus the one that's so close but doesn't get funded. I think the explanation was that people like to be on the "winning" side.
Maybe fundraising commissions? I'd be happy to chuck my hat in the ring to do some commissions where the money goes to redoing the site.
I've been on the internet since the turn of the century - I still somewhat saw the Duck as a mid 2000s hangover and was really pleasantly surprised to find it was still here! This new redesign should help shed that image once and for all.
(Side thoughts: the reason I'm here is because The Duck is one of the few places I can host 18+ comics - maybe market/push that aspect? Not just for porn, but the fact that you can post exactly whatever you like without a tumblr/webtoon/tapas-esque twitchy mod team taking you down for violence/boobs/whatever. Now that tumblr's a wasteland, there'd be a lot of creators who can't host their comics there anymore who're looking for a place to live.
Making it clear what separates us from the other current comic sites might be worth pursuing:
-I see that ordinary creators are valued on the Duck more so than tapas/webtoon. You don't get shoved aside compared to the "premium" section of bland comics, and discovering new comics is really easy.
-You can also upload in decent quality here, while the other sites restrict you to like 800px.
-The community is a lot less competitive/just trying to get views/subs in the forums.)
bluecuts34 wrote:
Could you divide it up into different stages? Like raise money to do the most essential work first, then keep going incrementally. The site looks really dated (but is actually really functional), so that might scare off some people upon seeing the homepage.
Psychologically, a giant fundraising goal is also kind of scary, and people might not back something if they feel it won't be met - but smaller goals with the old-school temperature gauge on the sidebar could be worth doing. It's like that kickstarter being funded five times over versus the one that's so close but doesn't get funded. I think the explanation was that people like to be on the "winning" side.
Maybe fundraising commissions? I'd be happy to chuck my hat in the ring to do some commissions where the money goes to redoing the site.
I've been on the internet since the turn of the century - I still somewhat saw the Duck as a mid 2000s hangover and was really pleasantly surprised to find it was still here! This new redesign should help shed that image once and for all.
(Side thoughts: the reason I'm here is because The Duck is one of the few places I can host 18+ comics - maybe market/push that aspect? Not just for porn, but the fact that you can post exactly whatever you like without a tumblr/webtoon/tapas-esque twitchy mod team taking you down for violence/boobs/whatever. Now that tumblr's a wasteland, there'd be a lot of creators who can't host their comics there anymore who're looking for a place to live.
Making it clear what separates us from the other current comic sites might be worth pursuing:
-I see that ordinary creators are valued on the Duck more so than tapas/webtoon. You don't get shoved aside compared to the "premium" section of bland comics, and discovering new comics is really easy.
-You can also upload in decent quality here, while the other sites restrict you to like 800px.
-The community is a lot less competitive/just trying to get views/subs in the forums.)
Thankyou for that, you make some really useful suggestions. Especially about what makes DD stand out.
As to fund-raising in steps: We've been doing that for a while, it's how we fixed most of the bugs and started making improvements. I was thinking about getting things done in a big lot now and not risk doner fatigue from constant donation drives.
-The problem is that just the new updated graphical redesign , along with making it adaptive for multiple screen sizes, is where the majority of the cost lays.
But maybe we can break it up as a stretch goal on Kickstarter?
Main goal: the redesign
Stretch-goals:
1. Make it adaptive for mobile sites.
2. Better page organisation. (when you edit your archive)
3. Increase page width allowance.
4. Threading in comments.
5. Likes.
6. Comment notifications for the forums and newsposts.
7. A dark mode.
8. Embedding videos.
9, ?
4.
Okay, let's give this a think.
Most Kickstarter I've seen are very much about launching a product, where as this will be a reboot. I wonder if non web comic supporters would be able to get behind that? Surely to raise a larger amount we need to break out of the niche a little. I think being somewhere that allows adult content is a huge selling point and I wonder how that could best be utilised, without it becoming an out and out porn comic site.
As I understand it Kickstarter has a number of options for funding types, unlike the old days when it was hit goal or get nothing. I'm still not sure Kickstarter is the way to go, but what are the alternatives other than Indiegogo?
The commission suggestion is good, but perhaps we need to broaden or some how? People are more likely to pony up cash if they get something for it.
Why just single image commissions, perhaps we can find a way to do full pages or 20 comic? Yes that's a lot of commitment I know.
Could we put a drunkduck printed comic out as a reward? Something unique that's not available online. Perhaps an anthology that showcases some of the talent here? It would be a reward but also perhaps a way for some folks to get their work printed. Obviously it would have to be priced so printing and shipping costs are well covered. I could help organise aspects of it, but I've no experience of getting stuff printed. Also a digital version could be made available.
I can only support bluecuts34's point about making the initial fundraising goal significantly smaller… 7000$ just looks like soooo much money! (I have no idea what money you could expect people to put up for this worthy cause though.) If there is any way to break up the cost and do some things as stretch goals (the way you already sketched out, Oz), I would be all for that.
And yeah, what Genejoke said: Putting together a digital drunkduck (DDD) anthology might be a nice incentive for lower tiers and cost us nothing except a little time and organizing, and see if we can do a printed one for higher tiers.
The fact that we're community led and allow adult content are increasingly unique selling points as has been mentioned and should be heavily promoted as part of any campaign. I have no clue about crowdfunding, but I guess along with impressive looking mockups and an emphasis on the new features of the site, there have to be some backer only extras on offer. The kind of thing Genejoke mentioned and also maybe some kind of on site priviledges/special membership? Occasional free advertising slots on the site? Access to the Pond Of Pulchritude? Free Duck Dollars?
A lot to consider.
I'm thinking about kick-starter just because it's really visible :)
And better than shitty indegogo.
We WILL need a big amount to begin with. Maybe we can get it down to $5000?
It's just because the graphical stuff and making the site responsive is the most expensive part.
The only other way is for me to put up my own cash initially and slowly pay myself back through donations like I've done in the past… but that's not great for my expenses :(
-IF we just do a pretty redesign and then do the responsive stuff later that would be much cheaper.
A printed comic is a nice idea but carries its own big expenses that will eat into the funds we need to fix the site. I know what you mean though: people want tangible stuff that they can own or some sort of other reward…
…I saw a thing about golden-age public domain comics. That could be a good feature to add to the site.
Good suggestions about the publicly run stuff and the adult comic hosting.
As said before I don't have experience of printing but would print on demand work? Also it's something that would be a reward for a donation so the donation amount required would need to be higher than the costs by a fair margin. Let's say comic and postage costs $5, then you put it with contributions over $15 or something. I guess it really depends on how far we want to take that side of things.
Other incentives, advertising obviously, art commissions, what else have we got?
I suppose merchandise is doable. Mugs and t shirts etc. A bit of research maybe required for supplying some countries but for the most part should be easy as there are so many ways to get custom things made on demand. Again it's making sure cost versus pledge/donations are worth while.
The golden age comic thing could be interesting, but not sure how much traffic it would bring unless you look for the site to also act as a comics museum of sorts. That's not a bad thing mind.
Speaking of broadening what drunkduck does, we could try and expand it into a geek news type of site, I don't mean the full denofgeek but a decent up to date comic news section for mainstream and independent type stuff. It's a double edged sword of course and would really require the update first as well as getting a few people writing articles and looking for news stories. I can't see it happening but my mind went there briefly.
Ugh, yes. Kickstarter is only good if you're confident of meeting the goals, which is so frustrating, and indiegogo takes too much.
Newgrounds has a premium membership thing and really pushes the "community supported and community run" aspect - I know we have a patreon already, but they have a really obvious shoutout banner about who's just joined so that might be worth a look. I'm not sure of that the back end financials look like here but the solution might just to make The Duck make money. Being a premium member would be something I'd be interested in if it came with some neat perks - outside of just ads, and stuff that might be of interest to comic readers rather than just creators, like a supporter discord or something. Maybe more customisation options. Spitballin' at this point - the patreon is great if you have a comic but not so much if you just wanna come along and read/discuss in the forums. I also am shy about my work so supporting the patreon doesn't appeal, as I don't want ads juuust yet lol.
I'd buy a digital anthology as well. I live in the asscrack of nowhere so shipping is prohibitively expensive, but I'll drop 5-15 bucks on an anthology. Happy to participate, too, if you need warm bodies.
(I'm just stealing ideas from other sites because I'm a hack. Apologies)
I don’t if it will help or not. How come DD don’t sell merchandise? Like an online store? I know it’s a lot but it could help as far as getting something for cash. Commission could work but what about putting original art work on object like canvas, cups, flash drives, phone covers, stickers, clock backgrounds, pillows, blankets, and dare I say t-shirts. There is more to list but you get the gist.
My other idea was to do a community project for a physical illustrations swimsuit issue to sell. Put together by some of the best illustrators on DD who has time. Or make a calendar with the feature comics covers or illustrations for each month. And why not use the playing card that we did last year as real playing cards for DD? The fashion show on DD can be broken up into 3 issues from the category.
I know it’s a lot to put together but it would be something to give to backers.
cdmalcolm1 wrote:
I don’t if it will help or not. How come DD don’t sell merchandise? Like an online store? I know it’s a lot but it could help as far as getting something for cash. Commission could work but what about putting original art work on object like canvas, cups, flash drives, phone covers, stickers, clock backgrounds, pillows, blankets, and dare I say t-shirts. There is more to list but you get the gist.
My other idea was to do a community project for a physical illustrations swimsuit issue to sell. Put together by some of the best illustrators on DD who has time. Or make a calendar with the feature comics covers or illustrations for each month. And why not use the playing card that we did last year as real playing cards for DD? The fashion show on DD can be broken up into 3 issues from the category.
I know it’s a lot to put together but it would be something to give to backers.
That's a good idea, I feel! While merch seems to be a real mid 2000s thing where webcomic creators made most of their $$$ on t shirt sales, it could be a good reward for a kickstarter. Kickstarter isn't necessarily an online shop but rewarding people who pledge with physical rewards is a good incentive. Running an inline store might be too much hard work, but special kickstarter rewards could be fun.
Love the idea of a community project. That's one of the best things on this site, the community.
I've seen charity streams go well on Twitch Tv. Usually it's for a serious cause like cancer research or hurricanes, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work for us.
Does anyone stream here or make videos of themselves drawing / working on comics? We could have a channel and feature guest artists. Think of it as a special interactive Quackcast. People could tip via PayPal. There are free services that let you setup donation pages (like StreamLabs) for example. There is an artist community on Twitch & Youtube. Maybe we could branch out and get new people to help us.
mishi_hime wrote:
I've seen charity streams go well on Twitch Tv. Usually it's for a serious cause like cancer research or hurricanes, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work for us.
Does anyone stream here or make videos of themselves drawing / working on comics? We could have a channel and feature guest artists. Think of it as a special interactive Quackcast. People could tip via PayPal. There are free services that let you setup donation pages (like StreamLabs) for example. There is an artist community on Twitch & Youtube. Maybe we could branch out and get new people to help us.
That's genius!
mishi_hime wrote:
I've seen charity streams go well on Twitch Tv. Usually it's for a serious cause like cancer research or hurricanes, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work for us.
Does anyone stream here or make videos of themselves drawing / working on comics? We could have a channel and feature guest artists. Think of it as a special interactive Quackcast. People could tip via PayPal. There are free services that let you setup donation pages (like StreamLabs) for example. There is an artist community on Twitch & Youtube. Maybe we could branch out and get new people to help us.
I have a twitch and I've been doing the 100 days of drawing comics challenge, I only have 34 followers though, so not very big on there. Next week I'll be unavailable to stream because I'll be going on vacation except for Monday where I'm going to be having a stream with a friend of mine about comics/art. So I wouldn't mind helping/hosting "theduck" twitch channel if needed.
lothar wrote:
mr. BEAST !!!!!!!!!!
that motherfucker has cash
somebody think of a way we can make that work … we are the oldest webcomic site and predate youtube by at least a millenium
Who's Mr Beast? XD
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Should have been reading this, that Twitch TV idea sounds interesting.
Join the club! It's good to see this thread resurrected actually as some of these ideas could do with a second look.
Ozone, you mentioned Golden Age Public Domain stuff, which I didn't notice first time around, what did you have in mind with that? I'm thinking it's a possible theme for a future anthology, which could tie in with anything added to the site?
Ironscarf wrote:I think my idea with the golden age stuff was that it's public domain so we can just straight up host those old comics without any issues.
Join the club! It's good to see this thread resurrected actually as some of these ideas could do with a second look.
Ozone, you mentioned Golden Age Public Domain stuff, which I didn't notice first time around, what did you have in mind with that? I'm thinking it's a possible theme for a future anthology, which could tie in with anything added to the site?
Aaaand we could of course also makes new comics with those characters
I think that in the front page has to be some essential information like the one already is showed (the daily post, top 10 and latest updates), the thing is that there are so much side space unused and you need to scroll to reach some stuff.
An idea is a new section where anybody could share drawings or arts (kinda 'snaps') and the newest could be showed in the front page, you click on it and it takes you to the section. I'm not always in the mood/time to work on my comic but instead make a sketch or a colored art that could be worth to see, even a little comment could be added and of course the readers could drop their comments too.
Also, in the main page could be shown the latest post of the forums with a quote, like 'now, in the forums' and the first lines to engage the readers, also a thumbnail of the avatar of the user/comic so people could recognize it faster.
The Quail's Random is an excellent feature but often (not to say always) it leads to broken links or comics that weren't updated since the beginning of DD :(, I don't know if those comics that aren't updating in the past 12 or 24 months could be put in a 'dormant' state until new updates.
I must have read it somewhere in the forums, about the 'privacy' of the subscribers and the comics they like, that this info isn't shared but I think that if your profile show the friends you have, your comic page could show who is already subscribed (believe me, seeing how many people are subscribed is like seeing trophies).
Speaking of trophies, I know that they were used a long time ago and I know that creating this stuff is kinda hard and boring, but also is nice to know that at least the stuff you're doing doesn't go unnoticed.
Well, maybe I'm daydreaming but perhaps some ideas could be done.
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