The comic book industry is starting to push back. I suspect that others will follow.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
AI Generated Art (aka we're all out of a job soon)
fallopiancrusader wrote:It's great that people are finally starting to get it-
The comic book industry is starting to push back. I suspect that others will follow.
Maybe that will eventually result in their databases being deleted and them having to rebuild them from scratch using truly copyright free art.
This sort of crap wouldn't last a second if they did it to the music industry, but artists don't have that sort of power- or at least publishers couldn't give a crap because they think they can ditch artists and just use the AI copies of their work. Whereas music publishers make more from having music artists signed to them than just music itself.
Hahahahaha…. I saw that article. And the one about the comic book executive guy that told the"artist" that submitted ai bullshit art for the cover of the comic: he said he would blacklist anyone that submitted ai art. Normally I'm against blacklisting but I think it's deserved.
I don't think ai will ever be creative. It's like a blender of stolen crap. It's going to take people a while to adjust but eventually they will be able to smell it. It stinks. It's fake, uncanny valley garbage with no soul.
fallopiancrusader wrote:And the article was wrong too in that it says the AI trains in the style of an artist- it doesn't in any way at all "train", it just samples the artwork and reuses it, mixing and matching, very similar to the way police used to do with a identikit.
Sure, you can make AI-generated art. You just won't be able to own it. As this comic book author found out the hard way.
People imagine these AI are super clever and interesting in the way they work, but all they do is match words to the imagery that's asked for and then try and fit similar shapes together, resizing and recoloring to make stuff blend. The AI is just using real artist's work to make lego with.
The fact people think that's what real artists do really goes a long way to demonstrate how untrained people misunderstand and utterly devalue art and artists.
The sooner they get those shitty databases wiped the better! They need to fill them with copyright free junk specifically donated for the purpose.
I would like to know one thing.
Why are ai/techbros are such deplorable human beings?
Between them openly talking about how they are going to fully replace artists,how their ai does a superior work, how worthless we artists are, calling us obsolete and how we are luddites to insulting photographers thinking it is just point and shoot when in reality there is a thousands of things like lighting, staging, camera lens and just having a full on meltdown over any kind of criticism.
I remember one person on twitter saying they didn't like how how a bunch of very creepy hyper generic realistic pics had messed up eyes and hands, that poor guy wasn't dogpiled, they were dog carpet bombed to hell and back over it.
Furwerk studio wrote:
I would like to know one thing.
Why are ai/techbros are such deplorable human beings?
Between them openly talking about how they are going to fully replace artists,how their ai does a superior work, how worthless we artists are, calling us obsolete and how we are luddites to insulting photographers thinking it is just point and shoot when in reality there is a thousands of things like lighting, staging, camera lens and just having a full on meltdown over any kind of criticism.
I remember one person on twitter saying they didn't like how how a bunch of very creepy hyper generic realistic pics had messed up eyes and hands, that poor guy wasn't dogpiled, they were dog carpet bombed to hell and back over it.
I've been insulted over and over again for daring to say AI is not necessarily bad by itself but how it's being used to exploit artists. Apparently acknowledging that this is whether we like it or not - happening, that technology aims at practicality and that ignoring the need of people to be recognized as artists without years and decaded of learning, thousands of dollars spent and a life of financial struggle, saying they're fake,(essentially gatekeeping art) is not necessarily going to have the desired effect. But it's a battleground out there now and the loudest of voices are either the ones glorifying AI or the ones who expect anyone to struggle like they did who wants to call themselves an artist. I think the issue is more with the profit-oriented aspect of this. How one cannot afford to spend their time just drawing things and not worrying about whether they get by or not and how big corporations are happy to use your works and turn it into their own profit without your permission. But I didn't come here to argue or get yelled at like over at facebook, so you know… I could be wrong, maybe it is more black and white. I just know that there's a lot of tension and hate around the subject lately.
Sadly, in real life things are rarely pure and perfectly grey. There is black and white.
The black here is ai is stealing images from those hard working artists that spent years learning their craft, and under the flag of "it is for the poor!" With the irony of if someone is that poor how they can afford a computer if they can't afford 2 dollar pencil sets, five dollar paper stacks.
It's ugly greed, a wait of "easy money". Artists charge because it takes a lot to be able to make those pictures. AIbros are just boardroom investors who don't have the interest, drive or desires to work hard on any front.
Off this topic, I now doubt ai is going to replace anyone because let's look at YouTube algorithm and copyright bots, or Google translate.
Honestly I am waiting for some news that a vast majority of "good" art to be actually done by a human in some kind of scam.
Yeah the discussion has to be taken away from the idea of "artist vs non artist", gatekeeping, and democritising art because that's the easy battleground designed by the AI proponents to shift the argument in their favour.
They characterise artists as an "elite", and everyone else as the poor schlubs who're now empowered to create, which is an absolutely silly and false idea.
We need to keep focus on the fact that these programs get their material from theft and that this could be done in other creative industries like music and writing but it isn't because there are penalties for that sort of theft there.
I and many others here aren't against AI generated "art" as a tool, it's the stuff that's plugged into it that's wrong.
Ozoneocean wrote:
Yeah the discussion has to be taken away from the idea of "artist vs non artist", gatekeeping, and democritising art because that's the easy battleground designed by the AI proponents to shift the argument in their favour.
They characterise artists as an "elite", and everyone else as the poor schlubs who're now empowered to create, which is an absolutely silly and false idea.
We need to keep focus on the fact that these programs get their material from theft and that this could be done in other creative industries like music and writing but it isn't because there are penalties for that sort of theft there.
I and many others here aren't against AI generated "art" as a tool, it's the stuff that's plugged into it that's wrong.
I completely agree with you that AI generated images aren't inherently evil, but they are being used to do lots of harm to artists as things stand and that they should not be allowed to. It'd be pointless to dismiss that, it's an ethical and possibly legal issue and if you throw ethics out the window, you ignore the very valid concerns of people who work hard to do right by everyone. I just think that having to spend years or decades on perfecting their art and still struggling to get recognized should not be an argument against "let's make it easier for more people" to achieve, it should be an argument against other circumstances that prevent people from create for the sake of creating and enjoying themselves. And the artists that call me an idiot for looking to understand what motivates each side aren't going to make a profit off of me for sure. :D Also, I think the questions of how art is valued by individuals and people collectively is one of the deepest questions out there that could be endlessly explored, it's such a shame that sites took a forceful approach in this and started to threaten the livelyhood of artists, because people are entitled to recognition for their work and yet the lack of recognition for such does not mean exploring new possibilities for easier ways to create should be barred from humanity as a whole.
Enter into a license agreement to use my art in your AI and I'm fine with that. Otherwise it's like, I build chairs and anyone is able to sell my chairs and keep the money.
Don't have talent or art training but want to make a comic? Make a comic!
Comicfury and the Duck aren't going to stop you from posting it.
Don't want to bother drawing foliage in the background? Use that foliage Clip Studio provides that make your backgrounds look like everyone else's.
I want to play for the US team in the next World Cup. Only I want opposing teams to have to hop on one leg to make it fair.
Unka John wrote:
Enter into a license agreement to use my art in your AI and I'm fine with that. Otherwise it's like, I build chairs and anyone is able to sell my chairs and keep the money.
Don't have talent or art training but want to make a comic? Make a comic!
Comicfury and the Duck aren't going to stop you from posting it.
Don't want to bother drawing foliage in the background? Use that foliage Clip Studio provides that make your backgrounds look like everyone else's.
I want to play for the US team in the next World Cup. Only I want opposing teams to have to hop on one leg to make it fair.
If AI products was like 3d assets where templates was used it would be so bad, but instead they just go right to the pirated asset flip.
It's more like someone broke into your store, smashed your register, messed up your tools, stolen all your chairs and wrote some ugly derogatory graffiti on the walls of your store then try to sell the chairs out the trunk of their car.
AI demands, to use your example, the opposing Olympic team to be kneecapped, legs chopped right off even, and at the moment the refs are pretty okay with that.
Unka John wrote:
Well, of course, others should be disadvantaged so I can get what I want.
So you would be okay with these guys stealing from you?
EDIT; Just wanted to add something that will completely collapse this whole empire.
The moment techbros learn they are not going to get 5 figures for their products, getting harassed for free commissions and have to deal with art thieves reposting their Frankenstein work they will abandoned this faster then Square ditched live service servers.
Furwerk studio wrote:Unka John wrote:
Well, of course, others should be disadvantaged so I can get what I want.
So you would be okay with these guys stealing from you?
EDIT; Just wanted to add something that will completely collapse this whole empire.
The moment techbros learn they are not going to get 5 figures for their products, getting harassed for free commissions and have to deal with art thieves reposting their Frankenstein work they will abandoned this faster then Square ditched live service servers.
Steal??? Sounds retro and somewhat elitist.
It's ummm…. *cough*, sharing, for the um, greater good.
Yeah, that's it *shifts eyes left to right*
Unka John wrote:Furwerk studio wrote:Unka John wrote:
Well, of course, others should be disadvantaged so I can get what I want.
So you would be okay with these guys stealing from you?
EDIT; Just wanted to add something that will completely collapse this whole empire.
The moment techbros learn they are not going to get 5 figures for their products, getting harassed for free commissions and have to deal with art thieves reposting their Frankenstein work they will abandoned this faster then Square ditched live service servers.
Steal??? Sounds retro and somewhat elitist.
It's ummm…. *cough*, sharing, for the um, greater good.
Yeah, that's it *shifts eyes left to right*
"It's for the greater good."
No, just bloody no. Ether you are a parody, or a cult member.
Furwerk studio wrote:Unka John wrote:Furwerk studio wrote:Unka John wrote:
Well, of course, others should be disadvantaged so I can get what I want.
So you would be okay with these guys stealing from you?
EDIT; Just wanted to add something that will completely collapse this whole empire.
The moment techbros learn they are not going to get 5 figures for their products, getting harassed for free commissions and have to deal with art thieves reposting their Frankenstein work they will abandoned this faster then Square ditched live service servers.
Steal??? Sounds retro and somewhat elitist.
It's ummm…. *cough*, sharing, for the um, greater good.
Yeah, that's it *shifts eyes left to right*
"It's for the greater good."
No, just bloody no. Ether you are a parody, or a cult member.
I tend to avoid cults. Unless, of course, they wear really cool outfits, with like lightning bolts and stuff. And a fez.
You're never going to do it without a fez on.
I am absolutely on Furwerk studio's side here.
I equate the use of AI art programs with competing in online chess games using a chess engine. I don't have to know anything about chess, just use the engine and Yippee! I win.
Oh shit. My opponent is using the same program.
"But Unka John, I can't draw and I don't wanna learn how to do all that other stuff to make my comic"
Look, I get it, you can't draw like Ironscarf. But, you don't have to. Plenty of lesser artists have readers on this site and receive positive comments.
Clip Studio practically makes the comic for you. Choose a premade layout, trace over one of their figure mannequins, copy/paste the provided foliage background and Voila! Of course if you don't know anything about art or visual storytelling it's still gonna show.
The point is you're still going to have to learn something if you want your comic to be effective.
Does Bravo draw his comic? No, he does not. But Bravo still has to know things. He has to make a plethora of decisions requiring specific knowledge. He does NOT just slap that thing together.
Okay, so you have no interest in learning about the craft at all. You just want a program to do everything for you. Just don't do it off my back.
Just because my car is in the same parking lot as yours doesn't mean you can use it without my permission. Nor can you use just a portion of it as in taking a tire off it because you have a flat.
The problem is that this AI art thinking fits right into the lazy internet libertarian socialist idea that we live in a post-copyright world and there IS no ownership of anything on the internet, once your stuff is online it's free to everyone to use how they like.
The idea is that they're not hurting you or taking from you because it's just a copy. They can copy your stuff infinitely so your claim to it is meaningless.
The trouble is that we tried that with music already, we tried that with video, people are still trying it with porn, we tried it with computer code, we tried it with books and essays too, and all that came crashing down.
With all of the above it's easier to get the good versions of it legally- by paying for it and there are usually repressions to stealing.
So none of this is a new frontier. We've all been here before over and over.
lothar wrote:for current AIs I'd just consider it too late and counter productive:
What do you think of people deleting their stuff because they don't want the ai to incorporate it into their image blender?
1. They've probably already scraped your art/
2. Now that the original is deleted the AI remixed version has no antecedents, there's is basically all "original" because no earlier copies on the net of that portion can be found anymore.
The person scores a great big own goal.
You'll only maybe stop future AI programs from adding it to their database and even then who says they won't just use the older databases and simply add to them in future rather than starting fresh?
The only way ahead is for regulation of the stuff they steel.
I'm still dabbling with Midnight Cafe on occasion. It's been honestly a tremendous tool to help me visualize stuff that i only have a vague idea how to put on paper.
I wanna draw a cyberpunk shopping district, but i want it from a very specific angle. I could rewatch Blade Runner or Ghost in the Shell and hope to find the ref i need there… or i could ask the AI for a "Cyberpunk Shopping District", and it gave me exactly the refs i needed. What may have taken hours of research and google image trawling was given to me in seconds.
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