Thread "2007 Comic Book Challenge" in forum "Comic Talk and General Discussion *"

Posted at 9:05AM, May. 3, 2007

Fair enough CH, but the deal in this competition is pretty straight forward, there's nothing nasty or underhand about it:
Create an idea that you can sell to Platinum.

That's basically it. Don't give away your favourite stuff, just create an idea that's good enough to win the competition.
It's nothing like Calvin and Hobbes, that creation evolved, he didn't walk into a straight forward deal like this. Ah, in jobs you work (creative ones especially) the standard deal is that whatever you create as part of that job is owned by your employer, and that's reflected in copyright law as well. The competition deal isn't one of being able to negotiate the commercial exploitation of your masterpiece, rather it's about getting some work out there and working as a jobbing comic creator.

At least that's the way I see it :)

Posted at 9:05AM, May. 3, 2007

Fair enough CH, but the deal in this competition is pretty straight forward, there's nothing nasty or underhand about it:
Create an idea that you can sell to Platinum.

I totally agree. I'm not saying they're lyin' sacks o' shite (as Clench would say). rather, I'm advising some serious caution on the part of young enthusiasts. Think about it first. If it still sounds good, then by all means go for it.

I use far, far too many curse words and drug references in just about anything I do for consideration by anybody anyway! :cry2:

Posted at 1:05PM, May. 3, 2007

But what of new pros like DJ who can write, draw, do dialog, spin plots and keep cranking out quality day in and day out? What if Hero By Night gets made into an action film starring Jake Gyllenhaal? What if professional screenwriters are brought in, change everything and the movie is a huge hit? Or worse, what if it totally sucks (like Catwoman)? Where is DJ then? You see where I'm going with this.

Where am I then? I'd probably be off counting my lucky stars and some money!

Seriously, I'd still be drawing comics though, that's where I'd be. I'll gladly leave all the Hollywood stuff to the pros. What would I have to complain about? I'd make money all along the way without lifting a finger further– but that's not my style.

Most of what you've said about fears of licensing or losing creative control is a valid fear for a lot of creators, but it's not reality. As someone who's been working with Platinum closely, I gotta tell you I feel like if there was something I'd be totally unhappy with them doing with HBN, they probably wouldn't do it. But I think it's more of a trust issue. I trust that whatever moves they make behind closed doors that I don't know about, they've made informed decisions and they want the best for my project and vision, because it serves everyone involved as a whole.

I don't believe a creative person only has one idea. So use some of your ideas to have fun and make some money or kickstart a career at this if you can and that's what you want to do. One of the biggest mistakes of many creators I know who haven't accomplished much or they gave up… they weren't willing to take any chances at all.

Anyway, I'm more than happy right now. I suggest everyone of course, read the contracts when/if it comes to that time for you. There's no harm in being cautious, but there's no reason to be alarmist either. It's a solid deal, and they're good people to work with.

Posted at 1:05PM, May. 3, 2007

Personally I don't see Platinum Studios as being like a credit card company. If you talk to them I think you probably negotiate something or other that's mutually beneficial to both parties. I doubt they see comic creators as patsys.

Posted at 2:05PM, May. 3, 2007

you gotta remember, they foot the bill to keep DD running, without them DD would have crashed a long time ago with server issues and dylan wouldn't have the money to buy new servers since he was keeping DD afloat with his own cash.

They look out for keeping comics alive, even in the net. Once in a while they mine webcomickers through DD to become pros with contests like these, i don't see any harm with that.

Posted at 3:05PM, May. 3, 2007

I agree with all of that, and I'm sure that Platinum is a fine company. Drunk Duck is great and their support is really crucial. And of course they will look for talent in their available resources as well. My point has nothing to do with this… I am merely pointing out that relinquishing creative control and rights is neither necessary to create a good strip nor very smart on the part of the artists. These guys have dealt fairly with DJ and elevated him to the pros. He also hasn't had any trouble with them, nor does he expect to.

But if, god forbid, he did, he would be holding no cards (at least none that aren't specified ion his contract). That's all there is to it. Those were, and are, the terms.

Many will go for it and probably everything will be fine. Comics publishers aren't evil, nor are they ruthless. Many aren't even profitable. That's not at all what I'm saying… I'm saying that creative control should remain with the creator. Not all the money (nor even most of it) but control over the characters, the story and so on. Editing is fine… even necessary. The publisher always retains editorial rights in every case. That's different than creative control.

Posted at 5:05PM, May. 3, 2007

I think that's fine if you're just self publishing. But for a big company to spend or invest lots of money in promoting your work and the brand they should own the property in most cases. Look at Marvel and DC. It's just smart business for publishers to own the IP, but reward creators with good page rates and percentages.

I don't know exactly how it works, but I imagine this… you're a media company, you get a call from a big movie studio and they want PROJECT X as a movie or animation deal, they want to deal NOW. Some deals are made in 90 second phone conversations (so I've heard) – but the publisher has to stop and say… "Oh well, we'll have to clear this with the creator because we don't own the rights to…" – ERRRRNT! The deal is over before it began.

Saying it's "not smart on the part of the artists" is just your opinion. I think it's one of the best deals I've made so far in my career, and I was hardly young and desperate. This was definitly a big hand up to a new playing field though. If you actually want to do this as a career or envision yourself making a living doing this when you're 80 (like i do) then this sort of contest is a great opportunity in your career. That's all I'll say about it.

I read on your blog about Calvin and Hobbes. You mention it was succesful because Bill Watterson worked hard, etc. This is PARTIALLY true… he would have been nobody if he hadn't signed a deal with the syndicate first. Hard to believe, huh? It's the hard truth. Had he tried to self publish his strip and self syndicate, he would have failed miserably. His contract is no better, because he still to this day does not OWN C and H exclusively, his syndicate still holds many rights. If he wanted to make a Calvin and Hobbes movie he couldn't do that all on his own either, he'd have to work with the syndicate that brought his feature to the masses and made it popular.

There are several cartoonists out here on the web who are just as talented as a young Bill Watterson, but hidden away in obscurity.

Posted at 6:05PM, May. 3, 2007

Well, DJ, you certainly are the most qualified person to make a recommendation. As you point out, it is only my opinion, and my experiences have been mostly with ad agencies, corporate monoliths and newspaper syndicates. (As far as Watterson goes, I think he's in a class by himself. I feel the same about Brad Bird, IMHO. Self syndication, once rare, is now more the norm. For Better or For Worse was a pioneer in self-syndication, and is currently one of the more popular strips in newspapers. Whether ol' Bill W. had it in him to do that himself is pretty doubtful, as he openly admits to not being a very good businessman!)

And you're right, it is a tremendous leg up. Personally, I am wary of media corporations and their decision-making apparatus because, in my experience, they usually go for the money instead of the quality. Not always true, but often. Decisions made in the boardroom are where movies like Catwoman come from, and the reason why Warners never promoted The Iron Giant.

The media frontier is changing really quickly, so fast that the powers that be are sweating bullets. As creators, we are at a disadvantage until we've established a track record. Any help up is indeed a favor, and quality is often the result. Independent creators in every medium are responsible for most of the major innovations in whatever genre (music, animation, comics, art, etc) because they are free from corporate restrictions. In the early 90's I tried for three years to get a strip syndicated, and when I was finally offered a contract, I backed away because I didn't like the odds. That's why I'm barely getting by with my art, having yet to hit it big. This said, though, I've put years of work and lord knows how many hours of thought into my characters. I've grown attached to 'em and want to retain control.

As far as creating a project specifically for this contest, who knows. As a dad I am fluent in three hundred dialects of hypocrisy!

Posted at 6:05PM, May. 3, 2007

Yeah, I feel the same way about my Yirmumah project. Some projects are more personal, and well, frankly, they're just not marketable to the masses. But I think every creator can come up with multiple ideas. It doesnt' make sense to guard them all so tightly if you're looking for a career in comics. You kind of have to go for it at some point or another.

Posted at 6:05PM, May. 3, 2007

Agreed. Everybody has to have a job, and as artists we are all working toward that big carrot; getting paid well for our unadulterated ideas!

I would love to see your Yirmumah project sometime, too!

Posted at 8:05PM, May. 5, 2007

After a year of talking to DJ, some of the Platinum, and rethinking the whole deal I've come around. And since this year it's only NEW ideas, it's not like you're going to lose something that you've invested tons of money building up. Platinum will build it WITH you. Considering the deals in Hollywood, the competition's deal is pretty good.

Still…I don't mind people not entering since it's less competition for me.
;)

Posted at 12:05PM, May. 6, 2007

This got featured in a little blurb in the NY Times (I think that's what it was) today. So you guys might be meeting a lot more competition than just a couple people from DD. Also qualifications are stricter this year.

Posted at 2:05PM, May. 6, 2007

*sob* San Diego is so far away *sob*

*sob* it's so faaaaar awwaaaaaay *sob*

*sob* i don't have that kind of money *sob*

*sob* *sob* *sob* *sob* visa and all *sob* *sob* *sob* *sob*

Posted at 2:05PM, May. 6, 2007

So, if yours is one of the chosen ideas, do you HAVE to come to san diego to pitch the idea? I suppose that would rule a lot of people out.

Posted at 7:05PM, May. 6, 2007

Yeah, you have to go out if you're in the top 50. They're giving a lot more time to plan this year though, and pitching in a little bit for the travel which should help a lot of people out. It should at least cover the airfair, maybe get with other contestants and shack up in hotels together?

Last year when I was picked, I had 7 days notice! And it was like, come hell or high water I was getting out there! I'm glad I did!

Posted at 7:05PM, May. 6, 2007

Can you send a representative? Like a sibling or partner or something? I know I'd like to enter, but won't be able to make it to SDCC because of work.

Posted at 7:05PM, May. 6, 2007

No point of me to enter. I wont be able to fly out to the panel.
I had some ideas to..

Posted at 8:05PM, May. 6, 2007

This sounds like an awesome endeavor but I have a publisher who's going to print Cuatro and the Zylonian Knights and I'm under oath of contract, so I'm afraid I must decline on this glorious competition. I wouldn't want to go against my contract.

Posted at 10:05PM, May. 6, 2007

Well I'm submitting stuff regardless. I've already wrote an outline for a story and dome up some sketches for pages.

Does DJ get any kind of points for his creation? I'm sure when (of if) the next hero by night writer/artist comes in, does DJ get the "created by" credit and so much of a percentage?

And in some aspects of it, shouldn't we be thankful that the original creators of certain beloved properties LOST control? Look at Wolverine for example. Originally he was meant to be a mutant Wolverine. Spider-man's not wildly different from where he was in the 60s, but he is married, has had some memorable villians Stan Lee never would've thought of. As an asshole, I think it'd be great to see my creation be as hated for being popular as Family Guy. Even if I got less than a ten dollars for it, I'd still be proud of myself, and as an asshole, I'd charge people a fortune to sign their crap or just to meet me. I'd just be psyched to see my crap be popular enough to be hated. If that even makes sense.

Thats why I'm submitting certain aspects of penis to platinum studios. I'm taking some characters and storyline from the old animated ones and submitting that. They bring out a decent sum of money, they can get the a very marketable comic. I'm pretty sure it'd work just as well if the words "%##@$!" put over curse words works just as good for it. The bleeps work for south park, don't htey? This reference heavy weird crap sells pretty hard (look at family guy). I've already got the readers to buy stuff too (I might even buy a ton of my stuff myself). Is there anyway to just submit my work and not have to be involved in a contest and have to fly to San Diego? The voting for the last ten seems rather pointless too, since the internet is easily swayed. I really could (and would) sell my soul over the phone and be done with it for incredibly cheap. With me, you'd get your work well ahead of time and it'd be of a good enough quality that you wouldn't have to do much for it to sell. It is what it is. Its funny dick and fart jokes with original characters, with enough heavy handed after school special in it to get away with the dirtier aspects of the comics.

I'm serious though, I'm ready to sell.

Posted at 5:05AM, May. 7, 2007

Yeah in my contract there's a line about creation credit. I didn't even ask for that, but you see that they've been putting "DJ Coffman's" Above many of the logos. I'm pretty positive they'll keep me involved with Hero By Night as long as I want to be.