I can tell SOMEONE in this thread thinks awfully little of his/her fellow comic enthusiasts… Sheesh.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
DC Comics to launch Zudacomics.com (a DD.com rip-off)
And editors are actually better at making a successful comic alot of times. Not all the times but alot of the times.
You know that in a way, an editor created Calvin and Hobbes?
Bill Watterson had been trying to get a comic syndicated after his political comic strip had been booted off the publication it had been in. So Bill did what many cartoonists did and started producing several different comics pitches and sending them to various syndicates in the hope of being published. However, Bill was so concerned with being published, he pandered to the syndicates and created the sort of comic strips he felt that they would like. This led to a lot of standard and average comics.
However, after rejecting one of Bill's comics, an editor suggested that Bill shifted the strips focus to a more whimsical part of the comic involving the younger brother of the main character and a stuffed tiger that the brother perceived as real. These characters were something Bill had included as a side thought, and had actually enjoyed writing for more the the rest of the strip.
Christie: Were you submitting different strips to different syndicates, or did you go after one syndicate?
Watterson: I didn't know a lot then – and don't know a lot now – asto what the best way to do this is, but my procedure was I would draw up the submission – a month's worth of strips, made to look as professional as I could, and send copies to the five major syndicates, and then just sit around and wait for their rejection letters. I would then try to see if I could second guess them or imagine what they were looking for that I could put in my next submission and gradually get a more marketable comic strip. In hindsight, as I say, I'm not convinced that that's the best way to go about it. Trying to please the syndicates was pretty much the same as what I had ended up doing at the Cincinnati Post, and I don't think that's the way to draw your best material. You should stick with what you enjoy, what you find funny – that'sthe humor that will be the strongest, and that will transmit itself. Rather then trying to find out what the latest trend is, you should draw what ispersonally interesting.
Christie: So after five years you just quit doing what you'd been doing and did what you wanted to do?
Watterson: It was a slow process, and actually what happened is anotherodd coincidence. One of the strips I'd sent had Calvin and Hobbes as minor characters. Calvin was the little brother of the strip's main character, and Hobbes was like he is now, a stuffed tiger that came to life in Calvin's imagination. One of the syndicates suggested that these two characters were the strongest and why didn't I develop a strip around them? I had thought they were the funniest characters myself, but I was unsure as to whether they could hold their own strip. I was afraid that maybe the key to their wackiness was the contrast between them and the more normal characters in the rest of the strip. I wasn't sure Calvin and Hobbes would be able to maintain that intensity on their own. But I tried it, and almost immediately it clicked in my mind; it became much easier to write material. Their personalities expanded easily, and that takes a good 75 percent of the work out of it. If you have the personalities down, you understand them and identify with them; you can stick them in any situation and have a pretty good idea of how they're going to respond. Then it's just a matter of sanding and polishing up the jokes. But if you've got more ambiguous characters or stock stereotypes, the plastic comes through and they don't work as well. These two characters clicked for me almost immediately and I feel very comfortable working with them. That syndicate, oddly enough, declined my strip, so I started sending it around. Universal expressed an interest in it and wanted to see more work, so I drew another month's worth of art, sent that to them, and they decided to take it.
From an Interview with Bill Watterson: http://bob.bigw.org/ch/interview.html
The problem with DC's idea is, if it IS intended to steal DD's thunder, its lofty expectations really defeat its purpose. The site curls up into a "safe" spot, only accepting what editors would think is the best work, and unless I miss my guess, that's pretty much limited to tried-and-true works. But probably the biggest appeal of webcomics is that you can try out all sorts of outlandish ideas without fear of consequence - if it sucks, just delete it off the site and try again.
The problem with DC's idea is, if it IS intended to steal DD's thunder, its lofty expectations really defeat its purpose. The site curls up into a "safe" spot, only accepting what editors would think is the best work, and unless I miss my guess, that's pretty much limited to tried-and-true works. But probably the biggest appeal of webcomics is that you can try out all sorts of outlandish ideas without fear of consequence - if it sucks, just delete it off the site and try again.
i dont think the site is supposed to be anything like DD. it seems more like a comicbook challenge kind of thing where people's comics are voted on and someone wins.
I kind of agree with Eric Burns over at Websnark in that this is sounding more and more like a collective. A Modern Tales and Keenspot kind of thing. Except it seems to rely on an online community more than MT or KS in that they would need them to do the voting and really propel the site.
I still stand by the sentiments of my earlier post. I think if Zuda can develop a really strong online community then it has the potential to do wonders. DC does have the resources to attract enough eyeballs to the site but whether that resource can also convince them to stay and become fans of the site itself is an entirely different matter. I think it's the difference between a group of people who are all there to pimp their comic and are only interested in talking about their comic, and a group of people who socialize, joke around, and provide the site with a human face. One's all business and the other's a community.
I admit that I'm pretty bias though and this is a reflection of my own personal taste. I haven't created a regularly updating comic in years. Despite that however, I still hang around a webcomic community and am semi-involved in other webcomic-related activities. There's a lot of webcomic things I've done because I was interested in it enough to invest my own personal time into. And that's the kind of thing that propels webcomics. Hardly anyone goes into webcomics because it's a fast and easy business that promises a financially comfortable lifestyle. For many, webcomics is an interest that requires investment of your own time without any real financial returns.
In a way Zuda is trying to sell a dream but they're going to need a community of dreamers. And man, webcartoonists are a bunch of dreamers. :D
As a side note, I've been reading a lot of the blogs out there that talk about Zuda and man it gets on my nerves sometimes. I'm not going to name anything but when you have a blog that talks about linking to webcomic communities and how they're probably the most important voices but yet somehow managed to link only to Comic Genesis…well, that's annoying.
As a side note, I've been reading a lot of the blogs out there that talk about Zuda and man it gets on my nerves sometimes. I'm not going to name anything but when you have a blog that talks about linking to webcomic communities and how they're probably the most important voices but yet somehow managed to link only to Comic Genesis…well, that's annoying.Which probably means they aren't actually very authoritative on the subject and the blog is mostly ill-informed opinion with not much real knowledge or personal experience. :(
-Not to say that a failure to link the Duck means you're a fool (I'd be a fool myself to say that!), but although Keen is big and has been around a long time, the community aspect is NOT as big a factor there as the free comic host part, which is what they're famous for. One would suppose people would link it because they went there once and it's the only one they really know of, while many other communities have emerged, grown and flourished over the years that really do have more focus on the social aspect.
But then they are blogs; while it's interesting to see people's points of view, any fool can write one… you tend to get a lot of personal opinions. Unlike real news sources there's no editorial oversight and no incentive to do any research or present a balanced picture. -heh, just like real journalism is becoming, but that's a rant for later…
I've been reading the post on this ever since it started. I agree with a couple of post that say that Zuda isn't a DD rip-off. It seems more like Transplant comics (I think thats the name). Where members of their community decide whether your webcomic is good enough to be on their site.
I don't know if I could try and put a webcomic on Zuda. The memory of sending in submissions to DC (and Marvel) only to receive rejection letters is still fresh. And it probably won't be any easier to get into Zuda. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the artist and writers that will have a comic on Zuda would have already worked on a DC comic as a guest artist/writer.
Honestly, I don't think that the folks at DD have to worry about this. Even if Zudacomics does do well. Drunk Duck has such a strong and close community that is growing larger every day. Anyone with a comic idea, regardless of genre, style, content, or talent level is welcomed. Where Zuda seems like they're going to be an exclusive club. I don't see Zuda stealing any of DD's thunder.
What if they hire assassins to sabotage the DD?
first the new pages do not upload…
the Next thing you know, Bruce Willis is Standing down town Harlem holding a Racist sign trying to appease the D.C. Black market web terrorists from shutting down the entire Site.
oh…the humanity of it all!
:spin:
(lights self on fire…dives out window)
What makes me angry about this is how often Wizard Magazine disregarded webcomics as not a big deal. But ever since I got onto the webcomic scene, I've grown so much as an artist that I hate looking at regular published things anymore. It seems a lot of creators get their head stuck up their butts and aren't willing to adapt or change their work at all, or learn new things from other people.
And now with Zuda? New York Times publishes a story, and now Wizard will be kissing up to DC over this idea like no tomorrow. That makes me so angry. This is why I hate the American Comics industry. Somebody help me move to Japan.
And now with Zuda? New York Times publishes a story, and now Wizard will be kissing up to DC over this idea like no tomorrow. That makes me so angry. This is why I hate the American Comics industry. Somebody help me move to Japan.
Can I come too?
I never really liked Wizard Magazine. Way too flashy.
BWA HA HA HA!Bruce Willis could handle it.
Bruce Willis can handle anything
Platinum Studios doesn't have that kind of money. So they got the next best thing in their price range:
STEVEN SEAGAL holding a panda!
lol!
What ever they did must have worked because my pages uploaded today.
Zuda has me intrigued a bit, but I can't honestly say that I'd ever even consider submitting anything to them. I like being the one in control of my stories and if they suck I have no one else to blame. I don't think they should have this vote thing. It seems like a shallow way of building a community. If American Idol has taught us anything is that sometimes the more talented people don't win.
I think that DC is trying to break into a market that is already staurated with content. They will have to convince the existing web comics creators that it is a good idea to come to them. The problem is that most creators do this as a hobby (like myself) or do well enough on their own to generate revenue from their work. The promise of putting the work in print doesn't really seem like a huge incentive. There are a number of ways to print on your own and all it takes is a bit of money. I have stuff in a few stores across the province and it only cost me a couple hundred bucks thanks to online printers.
I don't know if any of that made sense, but for what they are offering, it seems that one could do it on their own if they were willing to put in the work which is really more satisfying experience in my opinion.
It's DC starting to wake up to the reality of the dying print comics market. That doesn't mean they can compete with Drunk Duck, but the folks at DC are smart enough to see handwriting on the wall. The 22 page monthly comic book is dead. Webcomics are the future. DC has figured this much out.
Any decade now, Marvel will probably come to the same conclusion. ;)
The promise of putting the work in print doesn't really seem like a huge incentive. There are a number of ways to print on your own and all it takes is a bit of money. I have stuff in a few stores across the province and it only cost me a couple hundred bucks thanks to online printers.
I think the incentive of DC printing your stuff over you printing your own stuff is Distribution. That nasty nasty word. But I don't know. I mean that's the brass ring and all, but look at DC's numbers lately and you gotta wonder. I mean hell, Aquaman barely has more readers than SUPERCHUM these days! So what's the allure of a big-time company helping with distribution when they can barely get their headline characters out to the masses? I guess I need to see more info on their contract and how they execute all of this, but I just don't see the winner of their contest getting as MUCH hype and PR and marketing assistance as Aquaman, Hawkgirl or The Outsiders. Funny thing abou those comics? They're all cancelled.
;-)
This is really something that's been on my mind a lot lately. And was at the forefront of my mind going into Wizard World. And is the driving force for what prompted me to visit the Drunk Duck forum and then go meet the people at the booth a little after the panel.
I finally took a comic book drawing class at the local art college in Wilmington, DE. I'd taken a bunch of other continuing ed classes there, but was never able to get the comic class as it was never offered in a time slot I could make. Finally it was. And I loved it. Had a great time. Polished some skills. Learned some new stuff. But … I was left perplexed. One of my goals since I was a kid was to get work at a big company like Marvel or DC. I draw superheroes. So it's always been a big motivation of mine. But I've been doing freelance illustration, design and cartooning for over a decade now. I've self-published. I've been published as a regular strip in newspapers. And I remember the 1990s in comic books. And I remember the rags to riches nature of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and small indy black and whites that all tried to follow in TMNT's footsteps and failed. I've been to SPX a bunch of times. I've been to Comic Con International. I've made the rounds. And now I'm thinking that maybe, as I get closer and closer to realizing this dream of mine, maybe it's just a bit too late.
I don't think print comics are dead. Not by a longshot. But as a viable career path, I think they're looking pretty bleak.
I think web comics are steadily replacing the daily newspaper comics. With no more Far Side, no more Calvin, no more Peanuts, and with newspapers (my other career for 15+ years) slowly being destroyed by the internet … and with newspapers for the past 25 years or so inching comic strips out of their pages, pica point by pica point … the artform is going to have to thrive elsewhere. And that's the Web. The freedom. The color. The space. The ease of use. It's got it all over newspapers these days.
Which is where Zuda comes in. They seem to be trying to set it up almost like a cartooning syndicate. I don't know though, if the model's all that sound.
I keep thinking that you know, Penny Arcade doesn't need DC comics to back them. Why should anyone else? What does DC offer? Printed books? Aquaman can barely sell 14,000 printed books. How much support and money can they offer their Zuda artists if their mainstream artists/projects keep falling short?
Sorry to ramble. I think about this stuff a lot.
Actually, he's spot on. Even lesser known webcomics have larger readerships than a main DC title. Let's look at the numbers from June 2007 print sales, DETECTIVE COMICS #833 only sold 54,104 copies. Keep in mind a percentage of that, (around 25% I was told by a guy who owns a chain 9 comic stores) won't even see readers eyes, because they get bought and sleeved and stored away for collections. — But let's just say each one of those books counted as a reader, on a monthly title like that, it means only 50,000 unique individuals are reading Batman. Over on my other site, I was averaging 9000 something unique users a day. I can't imagine what a PvP or Penny Arcade get, but definitly, individual webcomics are read by more people than comic books.
Eye opening isn't it? Now we know why so many players will be coming to "webcomics" soon.
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