How about naming the site "WebDuck Comics"? And maybe our beloved mascot will instead be depicted as being constantly surrounded by computer screens with a tablet/stylus on his beverage littered desk? :)
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
The Duck PREVIEW Site is now Live!
It might have been better to wait a little while longer after the "image lost" before you put the preview out. I think there'd be less "flipouts" and some people would be a little more understanding.
I dunno, I wasn't personally affected at all by that crash and I don't feel very understanding now. Well, maybe I am a little understanding in a certain way. I understand The Duck might not suit my future comic needs. And that'll be fine, I guess. Wowio's gonna do what Wowio's gonna do, and I'll roll with that in one way or the other.
I finally have some time to chime in.
The Layout:
In terms of positioned elements I really like the new layout. I think it's clean, modern, and easy to navigate. I might feel a bit different once those blank spots are filled with ads, but at least right now I feel like there are enough rest areas.
The colors could use some adjusting, but people have been saying that already. I would make the blues a bit more deep green, and desaturated the acid green and harsh yellow.
Oh, and I hope that image that's being used for my comic in the "featured comics" section isn't permanent. That was taken from a guest page. :) But I'm guessing all of those were done quickly to fill the spaces and test the layout.
Name Change:
I personally don't mind it. I totally understand the reasoning, too. I myself have had to explain the name to people before. "Oh, it's a comic hosting site. Not what you were thinking." My only worry about it was having to track down every link I've made to the site and fix it, but even that's not a worry now.
I'm not against somebody coming up with a more clever name, though.
I'd recommend ditching the egg in the logo, since that's something I associate with chickens, not ducks. Plus, it's not very clever as a logo. Although it does look a little like a guitar pick.
Losing custom HTML:
This was my biggest worry. I like custom HTML because it allows my comic to look different from other comics. If the layout editing system is robust enough, this won't be a problem for me. Really, there are only so many good layouts out there, and they differentiate themselves with different images, graphics, and colors. Most off-site comics are just slight variations to Comicpress themes.
If the layout options can meet these needs, I'll be totally fine with it:
- A good several attractive layouts to choose from.
- The ability to change any images and backgrounds we need to.
- The ability to change fonts, font colors, borders, cell colors, etc.
- Let us have graphic links to other places. I like to link to other comics that I feel deserve attention (and not just other Drunk Duck comics).
- Additional pages (like Cast, About, and Downloads). Even if they're just linked to somewhere offsite.
- Any other options that can help my make my page look like I designed it myself.
These features would be nice to have:
- Random images? I like to put a randomly selected character in my banner for each refresh. I know, it's kind of specialized. But it would be fun.
- The ability to choose where the Drunk Duck ads go.
- Being able to use an outside source for tracking our traffic. I use SiteMeter because I don't trust the accuracy of DD's current hit counts. Plus, external trackers tell you neat things, like where you're getting linked from, locations of your readers, and other helpful information.
- I don't use Project Wonder, but I can understand a comic author's desire to. And maybe some day i will use it. Count me as another vote for trying to get that instated, but if not, I understand why.
Wowio "springing" these changes on us:
Doesn't putting up a preview of the site count as fair warning? I don't get why some people feel like they're getting bushwhacked here. This is your chance to see what's about to happen before it does.
People leaving The Duck over this:
It's fair to question decisions being made and even worry about the welfare of the site. But to decide to leave based on a partially-finished mock-up before it even gets instated? That's just jumping the gun. Rather than spend effort on finding new hosts, why not provide calm, rational feedback to have them make it the site you want? They're asking for feedback right now! And I know it sounds like certain things you want are no longer negotiable, but tell them anyway. It couldn't hurt.
Additionally, high-profile comics leave Drunk Duck all the time. It's the natural order. Some of the internet's finest comics once called Drunk Duck home, but many of them go out on their own because it's the next natural step. And you know what? New comics naturally take their place in the rankings. I only mention this because there are only a precious few comic authors here who could use leaving Drunk Duck as a legitimate threat, and even then The Duck would probably do just fine.
Wait…are they getting rid of user made sub-forums?
Product placement seems to have indicated this.
If my forum is deleted or rendered inaccessible then I am gone.
My forum is an absolute vital element of the community around my comic, and by its very nature not everything on there has been saved elsewhere.
Please confirm to me that comic specific forums are going to be safe here after he move.
People leaving The Duck over this:
It's fair to question decisions being made and even worry about the welfare of the site. But to decide to leave based on a partially-finished mock-up before it even gets instated? That's just jumping the gun. Rather than spend effort on finding new hosts, why not provide calm, rational feedback to have them make it the site you want? They're asking for feedback right now! And I know it sounds like certain things you want are no longer negotiable, but tell them anyway. It couldn't hurt.
Additionally, high-profile comics leave Drunk Duck all the time. It's the natural order. Some of the internet's finest comics once called Drunk Duck home, but many of them go out on their own because it's the next natural step. And you know what? New comics naturally take their place in the rankings. I only mention this because there are only a precious few comic authors here who could use leaving Drunk Duck as a legitimate threat, and even then The Duck would probably do just fine.
Which is to say they're leaving JUST over this. When you throw out a universally terrible site design coming off the heels of a server crash (which lead to downtimes and excessively slow speeds), it's perfectly reasonable to be disgruntled. The fact that Wowio was never very responsive to our suggestions in the first place doesn't bode well either, and restricting aspects like HTML editing proves they're going to keep some old structural elements that created gaping security and stability issues in the first place.
Wait…are they getting rid of user made sub-forums?
Product placement seems to have indicated this.
If my forum is deleted or rendered inaccessible then I am gone.
My forum is an absolute vital element of the community around my comic, and by its very nature not everything on there has been saved elsewhere.
Please confirm to me that comic specific forums are going to be safe here after he move.
Please post about this on the feedback area! http://getsatisfaction.com/drunkduck/topics/comic_forums They're probably reading there rather than here.
The fact that Wowio was never very responsive to our suggestions in the first place doesn't bode well either
This has honestly been my very biggest problem with Wowio. We absolutely need more communication directly from them.
Skool, by buying it out from under us, I mean NO ONE here wanted a soulless corporation to buy DD… I know all sorts of huge running cost numbers have been tossed around, but the truth is DD could run better than it ever has for around 150 dollars a month (dedicated, fast server, fan-operated). And that's the truth. DD could have survived on donations and maybe having a premium account option for 25 dollars a year where all ad banners were removed and people could point a real domain name to their site (OK, ComicFury gives you those things for free, still, I repeat, the forums here at DD are filled will wonderful people and well worth paying a premium just to enjoy their company).
That's all it would have taken… not a highly paid color-blind web designer, not a million dollar corporation drooling with dollar signs in their eyes when they think of squeezing DD for every penny it's worth. It started as a fan's dream to present webcomics for other fans. The was DD's soul. DD's soul has been sucked out, now… it reminds me of those computers in Japan that look like schoolgirls… on the surface it looks alive and appealing, but underneath it's just cold, hard calculations and sharp edges that will cut you.
As for Wowio only reading the feedback forum, why the HELL aren't they reading this forum? This is where everyone is speaking their mind, this is where the concerns and anger are… if WOWIO isn't reading this forum, isn't that really, really telling… doesn't that show just EXACTLY how little they care about the people who use DD? It's another 'we dictate, you obey' move by Wowio… typical.
BTW, I don't edit my posts, I speak my mind and let my words stand.
My biggest objection would be striking the HTML editing feature. If that happens, will there be enough leeway in the precut designs to get all the extras and other things uploaded anyway? For example in WM I have a ton of mini-essays on a stack of buttons on the left. Will I be able to reproduce my layout based on precut options or will I be forced to squeeze my site in whatever mold has been pre-ordained?
Secondly, the ads are of course part and parcel of a free-use site, but I suspect if they are too intrusive the frustration level from the readers of the comics, let alone the creators, will not create the click-friendly atmosphere such ads need, will it? So if it were possible to either choose the placement for our comic, or at least place them at the margins rather then mix them in with things like the author notes and the reader comments, it would make everyone happy.
I'm never good at figuring out how to use those sites that let you build parts and pieces of your site. Like a MySpace type deal.
I forget which comic site is was, but I tried one like that long ago and couldn't for the life of me put my web site in it.
Don't forget to mention these things in the Feedback page ^_^
http://getsatisfaction.com/drunkduck/topics
But what I'm saying is they didn't wait. Even if you personally weren't affected, comics you read must've had some loss.It might have been better to wait a little while longer after the "image lost" before you put the preview out. I think there'd be less "flipouts" and some people would be a little more understanding.I dunno, I wasn't personally affected at all by that crash and I don't feel very understanding now. Well, maybe I am a little understanding in a certain way. I understand The Duck might not suit my future comic needs. And that'll be fine, I guess. Wowio's gonna do what Wowio's gonna do, and I'll roll with that in one way or the other.
And this "not waiting" has been a thing of the site I guess. :)
"Red X gone? Alright, let's set up a beta duck!"
…Plus, they know there's a couple of serious bugs still around. ]:
But I still believe that all the hard work being done is good.
It might have been better to wait a little while longer after the "image lost" before you put the preview out. I think there'd be less "flipouts" and some people would be a little more understandingThings were a little more complex unfortunately. :(
The whole crash happened when the programming and design team were on the last downhill run to getting the preview site up, so it was an even bigger disaster than it seemed. The preview site was put off and getting the DD up and running again took away from time and resources dedicated to that project. -people that were already working overtime doing everything they could to get the preview done then had to work all night and weekends to fix the worst of the DD bugs and problems.
[quote="Tim wellman] I know all sorts of huge running cost numbers have been tossed around, but the truth is DD could run better than it ever has for around 150 dollars a month[/quote]
The truth is that DD costs thousands to run Tim. DD hasn't been the size of site you're talking about since 2004.The main reason some of those other sites function as they do is because they have a tiny fraction of our total userbase and daily traffic.
[quote="Tim Wellman]As for Wowio only reading the feedback forum, why the HELL aren't they reading this forum? This is where everyone is speaking their mind, this is where the concerns and anger are… if WOWIO isn't reading this forum, isn't that really, really telling… doesn't that show just EXACTLY how little they care about the people who use DD? It's another 'we dictate, you obey' move by Wowio… typical.
Wowio IS reading the forum- Skool and I.
Lawrence, our chief programmer, and Kinh, our website production coordinator, as well as all developmental and programming people under them are extremely busy programming and troubleshooting the preview site. There are a lot of demands on their time and it's very hard for them to assimilate and act on all sorts of information from all sorts of sources, especially at a time like this. The Get Satisfaction feature provides a system that makes it much easier for users to put information into a form they can easily assimilate and act on in an ordered way.
It's the job of Skool and I to make sense of the mix of social, emotional and practical concerns here and then bring that directly to the attention of Lawrence and Kinh when we speak to them personally.
This is probably more a failing of Skool and I more than anything else. As conduits between the Wowio design team and the DD community we've dropped the ball occasionally. But both of you were always mainly concerned with colour design choices, and frankly, those have always been a minor aspect of the things we're dealing with.The fact that Wowio was never very responsive to our suggestions in the first place doesn't bode well eitherThis has honestly been my very biggest problem with Wowio. We absolutely need more communication directly from them.
-That Yellow does need changing though!
Anyway, when hearing from us, you are hearing directly "from Wowio", the Drunk Duck part.
Lawrence deals with programming and oversees some aspects of design. Zach is the creative director who oversees all design, but the actual designer is currently away… Kinh coordinates all the websites and all the different people running them. Various other people handle different design and programming jobs. Matt West is the overall guy in charge of the sites… Brian Altounian is the owner of all Wowio. But there are many other people in between.
The thing is that nobody is really better equipped to answer questions relating to DD than us (Skool and I). We just have to do a better job at it.
LOL! Sometimes.The thing is that nobody is really better equipped to answer questions relating to DD than us (Skool and I). We just have to do a better job at it.So everything is your fault now? awesome.
Mostly we're still in the old mode where we're just volunteers doing this for love and fun. It's hard to reconcile that with bigger profile, more professional responsibilities. There's a lot more at stake these days.
Before, Platinum didn't tell us much and didn't listen much and we could rightly put all the blame on them when things went its up. Things are very, very different now.
Here's an image demonstrating the color changes I was talking about:The saturation lowering helps, but the whole thing in your example/suggestion just looks darker. It also needs contrast changes. (Lighten up the background, and darken the text.) The contrast is the most flawed part of the current color scheme, imo.
Here's an image demonstrating the color changes I was talking about:The saturation lowering helps, but the whole thing in your example/suggestion just looks darker. It also needs contrast changes. (Lighten up the background, and darken the text.) The contrast is the most flawed part of the current color scheme, imo.
Yeah, I didn't really mess with the text, just did some slider adjustments on some color selections.
And looking at it again, I'd probably lighten the yellow up a bit like you said, so the text stands out better against it.
First of all, thank you for your continued efforts!
However, after trying out the preview I have to say that I can't honestly call this new site an improvement as of yet. Rather the opposite. There are three things that struck me as really bad mistakes on your part:
1: Where are the advanced customisation options?!
I very much appreciate the new tools that enable creators to upload custom navigation buttons, if only they would work! If it's my fault, because I didn't meet specifications, it would at least be good to know, what those specifications are, but it doesn't say so anywhere. One of DD's main advantages is its user-friendliness especially for people who don't know first thing about computers - this is what drew me here, and it sure is a step in the right direction.
However this is no reason to deny users the advanced options, even if you need skills at html! Comic creators, including me, want or even need to include other buttons of all kinds, e.g. donation buttons, links to their DA pages, their other homepages and whatnot. You can't possibly think of all the things they might want to do, so better leave it to them. Learning html is not that hard, after all - I knew all I need to after in no more than two afternoons.
Also, the unique look of the comic layouts is one of the things that add a lot to DD's charm. There is a very good reason, why this is part of the annual DD awards.
Without the advanced customisation options you would take away one of the most important features and a lot of what makes Drunk Duck attractive! We'd sorely miss it!
2: Why change the name to "The Duck"?? I think this is a really lame name. In my experience "Drunk Duck" is a name that people remember instantly and won't forget even when they lose the note with the link. This is crucially important when it comes to promoting your comics, and of course for drawing new members to the community.
I know that some people had issues about the edginess of calling a site "Drunk Duck", but please don't forget that it's this very edginess that has helped to make it so popular.
3: The colour scheme is an eyesore!
I like the general design of the page, but I can't understand why you still use a colour scheme that completely sucks as virtually everyone in this community told you. The background's OK, but that's just about it. I could never really warm to the blueish grey we've got here, but I prefer it a lot over what I saw in the preview, simply because it is more neutral. You can't please everyone, so don't try!
By the way:
I miss being able to view user statistics for the comic, but this is only a minor issue.
I don't mind the ads. They get on everyone's tits, but that's just what ads do, and they are undoubtedly vitally necessary to keep this site running.
You did a remarkable job, but please consider these things, or you will murder the Duck, drunk or sober.
1.)Wait… the stats page is going? Does this mean you'll no longer be able to ascertain your page views? That's a real problem! Especially for those of us with zero tech savvy who lack the skills to upload a counter onto our pages. I suppose the ranking system is going, too? If so, that stinks! I avoided umbrella sites that didn't give you a way to measure the success of your comic, and now DD is joining the ranks of the page dumps? Please say this is a misconception.
2.)Oz… are you and Skool actually being paid by Wowio? If not, you've nothing to worry about. You're not Wowio employees in my book. No paycheck, no deal. You're in the clear. Union rules. ;)
3.)Speaking of Wowio… who/what are they, anyway? I don't usually haunt the forums, so I never learned the answer. What's their game? Advertising? Lisencing? Intellectual property speculation? What???
4.)And why is it necessary for the Wowio staff to work so much overtime to get the new site up? What's the rush? Clearly, no one here at DD is itching to move over. They can take their time. Take loads of time. No one will curse them for slacking if they don't. Working OT to fix the crash bugs… yeah, that's great. Glad they did that. Much Kudos to Lawrence. But why bust their keosters for the preview site? Chill, boys. We can wait. I'm sure no one will object if the Wowio staff doesn't break the 40 hour point on that issue. 8D
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