The trick to being a good listener is LISTENING. Duh.Prime example of an adult who just doesn't get it.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
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Kroatz wrote:Not even close. As Genejoke said there is a huge difference between being a good listener and just hearing what is said. There is give and take of conversation as a good listener builds upon the points made by the speaker and shows that what is being said has been heard and understood. A good listener does not listen to a lecture but repeat back to the speaker what has been heard elucidating on the presented ideas as well as encourage the speaker to continue.
The trick to being a good listener is LISTENING.
Of course the great majority of Humankind who love to hear themselves talk as opposed to actively listening to what is said. "Enough about me, let's talk about me. Did you say something?" The listener should make an effort once they start repeating themselves to encourage them to get to the point or even make their point for them. That really shows you've been listening when you make their conclusion for them.
The big danger of being a listener is of course morphing into a sycophant, toady or lackey. Becoming someone who agrees with everything that is said and massaging the speaker as opposed to having a conversation. But then sometimes thats all you can do because there are plenty of egotists out there who will talk about themselves endlessly.
Nah, I'll just lecture because I love the sound of my own voice and just how brilliant a conversationalist I am. "It is better to say nothing and be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt you are an idiot." Therefore I learned how to listen because I have a talent for saying idiotic things.
The trick to being a good listener is not just hearing but understanding you need to show you're not only listening but are also interested. I keep telling my eldest there is a difference between listening and hearing, it's amaing how many adults don't get this.
I think we agree, but I happen to reverse the two words. Someone who politely sits and listens while I bounce my words off them is listening, but I feel, like Oz where i'm simply lecturing. On the other hand, someone who actually hears what I'm saying can't help but act engaged. May not like what they're hearing, or may agree, but my words have penetrated and spurred something inside him/her.
And it's not always easy to make yourself able to hear what someone is saying to you because it's necessary to unstuff your own brain to make room for someone else's thoughts.
So I think a "good listener" is someone who succeeds in opening up his/her brain to hear what someone else is saying.
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Oz, I imagine that, all in all, you rather enjoyed your coleaveagiate days
*lazy rim shot*
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edit: I hit submit too fast!
@Hippie, if you can swing it at all, I hope you'll go live on campus at a college/uni. It can seem daunting at first, but attending college for me was most valuable from the social standpoint – making a new community for myself, governing myself, etc. Like Oz said, the academics learned - for me- translated into almost nothing. My degree just kind of indicated that I had an ability to learn - which is a good asset to have. But the self-knowledge was fantastic.
There is a big difference between hearing and listening, that's why they are called differently. I was trying to support the initial point, not serve as a bad example. Everything would be much easier if people used the correct terms for what they were trying to say. Which I did. Everything would also become much easier if people understood the correct terms, which you apparently didn't.
Meh, I don't really care if people listen to what I say, it does not change what I said, it does not affect my opinion, it only affects the amount of knowledge my conversational partners have. If you do not LISTEN but only HEAR, then you do not LEARN but only waste time.
Ayesinback proffered - @Hippie, if you can swing it at all, I hope you'll go live on campus at a college/uni. It can seem daunting at first, but attending college for me was most valuable from the social standpoint – making a new community for myself, governing myself, etc. Like Oz said, the academics learned - for me- translated into almost nothing. My degree just kind of indicated that I had an ability to learn - which is a good asset to have. But the self-knowledge was fantastic.
And don't forget the sheer entertainment value of it all. For instance, one of the guys on my course used to decorate his clothes with spray paint every morning - after putting them on.
This is him on guitar with his band Gaye Bykers On Acid (occasionally Lesbian Dopeheads On Mopeds) and the vid shows a typical morning in our college refectory:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c09eHP_Z9mk
Kids usually seem BETTER at listening than adults. In older people, it's kind of special when youengage with a good listener/responder.
It's a great thing to try and impart to your kids, to be able to listen well. Listening even seems strongly related to EMPATHY, maybe an even greater quality to have (and one that some say, is on the decline in younger generations).
Man, it can be frustrating to be trying to engage with someone who's obviously distracted/uninterested/not listening (more and more common in a world of increasing distractions!). And how great when someone's there with you, and present in the moment.
Interesting point by Bravo about the other side of that…just agreeing to everything and being a yes man. I, uh…well, yes. I agree.
ayesinback wrote:The actual clinical definition of "hearing" versus "listening" is as Genejoke used them. Yes, this is all based on countless clinical studies of people's listening skills. You don't think I just pulled this out of my ass because I like to lecture?
I think we agree, but I happen to reverse the two words. Someone who politely sits and listens while I bounce my words off them is listening, but I feel, like Oz where i'm simply lecturing. On the other hand, someone who actually hears what I'm saying can't help but act engaged.
Listening skills are actually taught in various places featuring continuing education and those trying to help the socially inept and mentally ill. I fall into the last catagory and various health care professionals praised my listening skills. I praised my mother who unknowingly practiced them and from whom I learned. I also learned the pain one can cause when one only hears and doesn't listen. It can lead to an entire life lived in never ending frustration and what I call "The Cassandra Complex" Cursed to forever being right but to never be listened to.
All people have their belief systems and their coping mechanisms and woe to one who challenges them. People will dig in their heels because their sacred cow is untouchable. No amount of evidence and reason will sway them and that is a lesson hard and long in the learning. Someone has to want to change their mind and willing to listen to alternatives before a lesson can be learned. I remember teaching human evolution and the students looking at me and simply saying they were good Christians and knew evolution was wrong but would study it to pass the test. It wouldn't have mattered if I had brought them the fossils and DNA samples and even the entire Leakey Clan to lecture to them. (Let alone Richard Dawkins!) Their mind was made up before they sat in the classroom though they did admit I made a convincing argument. Though I did change one or two minds and that's what a teacher does.
One never stops learning and should be open to learning from anyone and anything. That means one has to know how to listen rather than hear.
(Copies of this lecture are not available on CD and do not look for my forthcoming book "Enough about me, let's talk about me : The Cassandra Complex and the art of Listening"
sigh- when i heard that my class was canceled for saturday i was yay! weekend to relax and get myself healthy. then i get an email from my art history professor… you've enough rest, time for required museum visit this sunday! this would be all spiffy and fine if i wasn't feeling sick. eh, it'll be an adventure.
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conversation about listening based off of relationship woes, eh? hippievan, it's not like you won't find someone just because you've interesting interests- to have implied so was wrong on your sisters behalf. it just means that you might have your work cut out for you as a smart, interesting, and (i think) shy person. and true, the ability to listen is a valuble tool in any relationship really- but so is the confidence to put out your ideas for others to sometimes listen to. which i think you have some of as you talked to an older gentleman about toothbrushes- so don't shirk away from that just cause your sister said something mean.
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kroatz. language is an evolution and as such i like to compare language with a species counterpart. simple words are simple organisms, old unused words are dinosaurs, words that have prevailed for long admounts of time are sharks and crocodiles, words that have changed only a bit but have been around for a long time are birds and fish. words that have faded out are more recently extinct speices… and so on and so forth.
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i am unwell
bravo1102 wrote:
The actual clinical definition of "hearing" versus "listening" is as Genejoke used them. Yes, this is all based on countless clinical studies of people's listening skills. You don't think I just pulled this out of my ass because I like to lecture?
I stand corrected. And it serves as case in point of why I keep coming back to defining terms. I agreed with the concept but have been guilty of exchanging the two terms.
But that's enough about me. You had a question, didn't you. I hope I'm not so dense as to have misunderstood this, too.
Anyway, do I think you pulled this out your ass?
This? Do i think you pulled THIS out your ass?
No
Not THIS.
Oooh, semantics and stuff. Yeah, I'm too brain-dead for that stuff.
Anyhoo, whatup. Pokin' my head in, been gone for 2 years, yadda yadda, all that good stuff. Board seems pretty much like the old days. Heck, pretty much 90% of the regular people I remember are still here, except that now they're mods. Go figure.
rokulily wrote:I was mostly joking, really. I imagine being in school will expose me to some people who share my interests.
conversation about listening based off of relationship woes, eh? hippievan, it's not like you won't find someone just because you've interesting interests- to have implied so was wrong on your sisters behalf. it just means that you might have your work cut out for you as a smart, interesting, and (i think) shy person. and true, the ability to listen is a valuble tool in any relationship really- but so is the confidence to put out your ideas for others to sometimes listen to. which i think you have some of as you talked to an older gentleman about toothbrushes- so don't shirk away from that just cause your sister said something mean.
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i am unwell
I usually find it relatively easy to talk to people once I've got an excuse to do so, it's more the initial starting of a conversation that I have trouble with.
Feel better!
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I was just thinking back on how scared Juliet used to be. For ages she wouldn't even come close to me. I would just sit in the room with her a couple hours a day and do my homework or whatever quietly, and let her hop around and get used to my presence. After a little bit she would take treats from my hand. I moved her into my room because she was eating too many cords and not getting enough attention in the rec room. Then I had to get her properly litter trained and stop her from eating everything so her free time wouldn't be too destructive.
A year later she's got free range of my room - she gives kisses, comes to her name, does simple tricks to get treats, and I've even gotten her to stop chewing the walls.
Now, there's no way getting another person to like me can be harder than all that. ;)
lba wrote:You would be too! …Welcome back lba. Good to see you again!
except that now they're mods. Go figure.
Actually, with the site only half finished like it is in this new version, only Skool and I are really mods and admins now. Lucky the forums are so quiet now or we'd be totally buggered.
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I have FINISHED my latest comic page! The only trouble is that the sound effects are being a pain. I finished the page on Tuesday. That's how long the text stage has stumped me. Grrrr!!!!!!!
Ha, yeah there were some interesting characters in my art school too… at uni there were more posers than characters, but art school had the real thing :)Ironscarf wrote:This is him on guitar with his band Gaye Bykers On Acid (occasionally Lesbian Dopeheads On Mopeds) and the vid shows a typical morning in our college refectory:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c09eHP_Z9mk
Speaking of bands, a guy who I shared a studio with had a pretty good one, called Effigy. He went to the same art school as me (I didn't know him then), did pretty well with his band and then went back to being an artist- that's when I shared the studio with him.
This is my fave song by them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzInIxxR9OE
These are some more pro clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix2_L-jVKw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShKivQ4LkQY&feature=related
I didn't even know he'd been a musician though till another person in the studio told me one day. And this is actually the first time I've actually looked up his vids too!
Strnage- when I knew him he was an ordinary blokey Aussie guy, with short hair, always in jeans and a ratty T-shirt, and also one amazing master of a painter.
Those vids are a complete contrast to the Mike Hardman I knew, he's so efiminate and dressy there, looks like they had a bit of a Placebo thing going on.
ozoneocean wrote:
You would be too! …Welcome back lba. Good to see you again!Yeah. I don't know how long my reappearance is going to last. The story of my disappearance is kind of a long tale, but it ends in me leaving for further combat training and officer candidate school some time in the next few months. It'd make for a pretty good comic if I should ever get around to it.
Actually, with the site only half finished like it is in this new version, only Skool and I are really mods and admins now. Lucky the forums are so quiet now or we'd be totally buggered.
Ideally I'll not be going poof for another two years. It's rather nice to know DD and some of the old crew is still here though. That's does indeed warm my heart.
I kind of like this new incarnation of the site too, I admit though that I'm a bit disappointed to see the boards so slow.
They slowed down mainly because of the incomplete functionality on the site that doesn't encourage people to hang around as much- weird JavaScript forum text entry forms, no stats on comics, no PQ notifications and so on.
By aaaanyway, Congrats on the officer training thing man! Wow! last time you were around you were just getting a BIG graphic design contract from a bank or something and also making noises about going off and maybe joining the army to pay the bills.
So what happened?
If you've got them, add me on Google+ https://plus.google.com/111477130608520952736/posts
or facebook: http://www.facebook.com/ozoneocean
I'd love to stay in touch!
feh… got another "freak flat". Basically one of my tires somehow completely deflates. But when checked by a tire professional it seems perfectly fine. No nail/screw punctures, no pranksters, etc… Even witnessed it one night. The tire deflated in a half hour, but when I pumped it up and checked it for leaks I didn't find any, and neither did the tire person who fixes my tires. It's one freaky mystery…
Maybe an opening in a seem or something along the inside where it touches the rim? That way you wouldn't be able to find it easily and it would deflate slowly most of the time because of the pressure of the skin on the rim… unless it ended up rotated in the top position then there's be less pressure (from the weight of the car) and it might deflate a bit faster?
Just a wild theory.
lba wrote:
Yeah. I don't know how long my reappearance is going to last. The story of my disappearance is kind of a long tale, but it ends in me leaving for further combat training and officer candidate school some time in the next few months. It'd make for a pretty good comic if I should ever get around to it.
Ideally I'll not be going poof for another two years. It's rather nice to know DD and some of the old crew is still here though. That's does indeed warm my heart.
Hi lba - I too am dropping in after an extended absence. Good to see you and your familiar old avi - takes me back to less complicated times. Could it be that life was oh so simple then, or has time rewritten every line? Congratulations on your potential officership and moderatorship in waiting.
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Ozone, very groovy musicals. Secret double life as a rock star and you never suspected - just like on Hannah Montana!
lba wrote:
The story of my disappearance is kind of a long tale, but it ends in me leaving for further combat training and officer candidate school some time in the next few months. It'd make for a pretty good comic if I should ever get around to it.
(…)It's rather nice to know DD and some of the old crew is still here though. That's does indeed warm my heart.
You know you could do a digest in the "What Happned while I was away: The DD Soap" thread. And Army life definitely makes for a great comic. Just witness Powerpoint Ranger and once upon a time Beetle Bailey, Snuffy Smith, Pvt SNAFU, and Willie and Joe.
Two years? Wow, that long already? I can't seem to get away from this place for two days. But then anything so I don't have to work on my current projects.
Freak flat? Did you check the tire stem? It could be loose or defective. Also as Ozone suggested the rim seal. The balance could also be off which can cause air to escape from around the rim and not necessarily show up. Sometimes the leak is so small that even the soapy water doesn't show the air seepage until the the third or fourth go around. A tiny pin prick could go all the way through and be so small that it doesn't cause bubbles and be easily dismissed or be practically invisible. In the garage where I worked it once took a couple of hours to find a tiny pin hole. Sudden drops in temperature can also cause a slightly under inflated tire to lose all pressure over night. That has happened to me. In fact in nearly thirty eyars of driving I've had everything happen with tires including the infamous blow-out in the rain while wearing a suit.
ozoneocean wrote:
They slowed down mainly because of the incomplete functionality on the site that doesn't encourage people to hang around as much- weird JavaScript forum text entry forms, no stats on comics, no PQ notifications and so on.By aaaanyway, Congrats on the officer training thing man! Wow! last time you were around you were just getting a BIG graphic design contract from a bank or something and also making noises about going off and maybe joining the army to pay the bills.So what happened?If you've got them, add me on Google+ https://plus.google.com/111477130608520952736/postsor facebook: http://www.facebook.com/ozoneoceanI'd love to stay in touch!
Yup, that was the project for the Milwaukee Bucks basketball team. That was right about when I started working towards my masters and that project led to me teaming up with another designer to start our own company. Long story short, he did some stupid things business-wise and we ended up running out of work about 6 months in and we never got anything new coming in. So I ended up deciding to quit the masters plans, ( It was just turning out to be a bunch of people fluffing each other and not really any advancement of skill or knowledge. ) and I got a job designing apparel graphics for 60-70 hours a week. Around the same time I enlisted to knock out some of the $50,000 I owe and they stuck me in the officer program because of my test scores.
I have to figure out how the new facebook timeline works but I'll add ya. Every time they change it, it takes me a week or two to figure out how to even use my own page again.
@Bravo: I was thinking something more along the lines of a semi-diary comic. I'm thinking along the lines of Confessions of A Jelly Doughnut as a working title. I never realized how out of shape I was until I heard the words "5 mile warm-up run".
Thanks Scarf. I think DD was just a little more innocent back then.
Yeah, I can see there's a few issues with how it's recognizing html in posts and stuff. Oh well, stuff happens.
lba wrote:ah yes, back when we were all young and vibrant and full of hopes and dreams. dreams of making comics, silly jokes and spamming whatever our hearts desired at a pg-13 level most times. ah those were the days
Thanks Scarf. I think DD was just a little more innocent back then.
Yeah, I can see there's a few issues with how it's recognizing html in posts and stuff. Oh well, stuff happens.
now… get off my lawn! -waves teacup-
Ironscarf wrote:
Ozone, very groovy musicals. Secret double life as a rock star and you never suspected - just like on Hannah Montana!
Yes, EXACTLY like Hannah Montana!
…What exactly is Hannah Montana?
lba wrote:
Yup, that was the project for the Milwaukee Bucks basketball team.
Ooooo, sports teams… I haven't designed stuff for a coproate sports team yet, but all the teams I have desined stuff for have been very painful. They lack ANY design inteligence at all. These are people that need someone in charge of them and simple rules in order to know how to function, in life as well as when they're playing because they haven't got the faculties to cope on their own.
It's the only conclusion I can come to after all my dealings :(
I look forward to finding out more! Add me when you can. I find I need exactly the same adjustment time with FB. It's especially anoying how each time they change something they also include some preverted adition that makes ALL you private stuff 100% public! ie. the timeline. So you have to go and "limit" it.
Jebus, what a joke of a site….
Still without it I would not have been able to stay in touch with all those fantastic DDer and other friends who I don't see as oten now, as well as organising lots of cool things.
Okay… went through the storyline for Resident Evil Revelations and now it's got me wondering… can an agency created and funded by a "good" national government become such that its director thinks he's running his own little kingdom? You'd think there's someone… or a group of people monitoring said person's activities carefully. Funny thing is I'm sure it's something that's happened in real life, though in a less extreme form (J. Edgar Hoover's FBI comes to mind if that History Channel show I watched about him is to be believed). The game ALMOST made me want to read Dante's Divine Comedy, though…
Lonnehart wrote:Yeah, that'll happen with any private, public or government group where the head has no effective oversight.
Okay… went through the storyline for Resident Evil Revelations and now it's got me wondering… can an agency created and funded by a "good" national government become such that its director thinks he's running his own little kingdom?
There are many examples in business and government. I suppose it doesn't always lead to bad things, but most of the time when you learn about them is because it's gone wrong so it makes you think they're always bad. You know- corrupt Police chiefs or Mayors… Generals that have coups or form Juntas, in business people like Murdoch, Conrad Black, Howard Hughes, William Randolph Hurst…
ozoneocean wrote:
…What exactly is Hannah Montana?
Unless you have a tweenage daughter, you couldn't possibly know and what's more, you really don't want to know.
Besides, Selina Gomez is better.
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