I have done the Canada thing, and if living in -16*C for part of the eight month winter sounds more comfortable than living in the USA for the next four years, then more power to you. My only issue with being an expat is being officially labeled an immigrant.
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I am reading articles from both perspectives and I am starting to see the whole picture. Having spent my life in large, urban cities like Chicago and Los Angeles gave me the impression that my network and friends were in the majority. However, it felt like the 2004 election all over again when I was living in a bubble of liberal-minded thinkers that was really on the outskirts of the rest of the country.
This election showed me that electorate was divided between the urban and rural areas. This was Upstate New York vs. Manhattan, Southern Illinois vs. Chicagoans, the whole Midwest vs. the East and West Coast. I hope that the city mouse and country mouse will get a chance to find common ground in the next four years.
Personally, the results of Tuesday's election sent me into a funk because I am a college educated, minority female that has spent years in the education sector working with students who are immigrants or children of immigrants. I called my dad this morning and said, "You have two daughters that are minority females in this country. What message are you trying to send us by voting the way you did? You might see this as a joke, but this is going to be my reality." The rhetoric used during the campaign by the future POTUS was offensive and not diplomatic. I would like to see him right some of the wrongs while in office.
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
The US Election
About that ancient Chinese curse which says "May you live in interesting times": Well, yes, as a matter of fact, I do want to live in interesting times! Bring it on! My reaction while watching the election on Tuesday night was: I don't like what I am seeing, so it's time to either get to work and do something about it, or STFU. What can I, personally, do to make a difference in the governance of my country? Probably next to nothing, but I would rather be active than passive.
I don't know if there are two sides to this argument. There are at least three.
The anti-Clinton faction is not necessarily pro-Trump.
No offense meant in any of this; I'm not even American but I've followed the election closely for over a year.
I was in my own echo chamber (probably a smaller one); I was sure Sanders would be the President.
Bernie Sanders was a powerful populist voice during the primary, who was buried and then laughed at by the corporate media, hidden by the Democrats with limited debates, and called everything from a misogynist to a communist while Hillary Clinton was propped up (Wikileaks reveals this).
People did not like or trust Hillary Clinton, no matter what the Administration, the corporate media and talk shows tried to pretend.
Honestly, she scared me more than Trump (partly because I never imagined Trump could win).
The police have become more militarized. Black people are put in jail in record numbers with long sentences for non violent crimes.
The Dakota Access oil Pipeline has seen violence against protestors by police and private security firms and an almost certain threat to tribal land and the drinking water of millions of people.
Obama and Clinton have ignored the whole thing, while he pushes more job-outsourcing trade deals and she collects millions and sells frakking around the world, while inciting a new cold war with Russia. Plus ever expanding wars overseas.
And Trump was not needed for any of it.
Isn't it better for evil to have an ugly face like Trump? That's an enemy that can be fought.
Granted, the right wing majority across the board is a surprise. But that won't last. People are outraged - this is not a bad thing!
I truly didn't like either main candidate… I had reservations about where the U.S. is headed no matter which side won. I sometimes wonder if the divide is so big that it's inevitable the U.S. will split up in my kids lifetimes (don't think it will in mine…), but I also sometimes think a giant chunk of the country has just become social-media 'wimpified', and we're making mountains out of molehills. Yes, the office of U.S. President is the most powerful in the world, but there's enormous checks on that power…!! Obama couldn't get everything he wanted done, and it seems some of the things he did get done might get repealed… It will be same with Trump If he's half as bad as people fear, then congress will revolt in two years (with massive Democrat turnover at mid-term elections) and he'll be out of office in four!! If he turns out to be relatively decent, well… that's not a bad thing at all, is it. And it would've been the same with Bernie or Hillary… Not that people shouldn't be moved to action, but maybe the giant fear-mongering needs to die down a little…
@Banes: The heavy red takeover of the electoral map shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as a hard shift to the right. I think it's more a vote toward populism in general. Had Bernie Sanders been the democratic candidate, I'm positive he would have trounced Donald Trump handily. I think people went for Trump because he seems like someone who's at least in touch with what's going on in the country, whereas the Democratic bureaucracy's message was basically, "Trust us. We know what we're doing! It's really not that bad!"
If the Republican Party is going to be more of a working class populist party, that means they're moving their politics to the left. And with the Democrats moving to a more overt de facto socialist bent, it means the politics of the country as a whole are more left-leaning than they've been for a very long time, and that's a direct legacy of Trump's candidacy. The colors don't tell the whole story.
Then what did I buy all these cheese platters for???
If there's one thing I learned from living in Wisconsin is that you can never have too many cheese platters.
About that ancient Chinese curse which says “May you live in interesting times”: Well, yes, as a matter of fact, I do want to live in interesting times! Bring it on! My reaction while watching the election on Tuesday night was: I don't like what I am seeing, so it's time to either get to work and do something about it, or STFU. What can I, personally, do to make a difference in the governance of my country? Probably next to nothing, but I would rather be active than passive.
Yes! It's really aggravating to hear "my voice doesn't matter, why bother" if those same people didn't bother to try using it at all.
One thing that worries me is this attitude of "oh, it seems bad but it'll be ok because of this and this…"
That's not true. Things can ALWAYS get worse. If something seems bad, then it can actually really BE bad. You guys live in a little bit of a complacent bubble in some ways (I'm not trying to be insulting here).
Look at how politics have gone in other countries- people find themselves pulled out of their beds in the middle of the night, taken away and shot in a ditch en masse.
Admittedly that's an extreme example, but the point is it can happen in ANY country, no one is immune.
For certain people in the USA that HAS happened in the past, and for certain people now (illegal Mexican immigrants, Muslims…) they really do have to worry about that in the near future- not being shot, hopefully, but being pulled from their beds at midnight and imprisoned, certainly. That is not an unrealistic fear.
To reiterate- these things do happen in the world, and the USA is not a child safe, padded little bubble were bad things are impossible.
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The thing is, crazy right wing nuts worry about that happening to them with Obama- which it never did because they were white, enfranchised, they're the majority, and no one cares about oppressing them.
This sort of thing DOES happen to minorities though.
@Kimluster - For sure! A larger perspective is what we need sometimes. 'social media wimpification'! xDDD I love it!
@El Cid - I agree with your first paragraph totally!
I don't see the Democrats as taking on a Socialist bent at all, though. I've seen Republican voters calling Obama and Clinton Socialists but that's comically off the mark from what I can tell. They're super corporate-friendly.
If Bernie was there, that label could have some validity. Though a touch of Socialism isn't so bad in my opinion…it's about a society that's more generous to the lower earners and working/middle class, with higher taxes. That's a position that could be argued for or against, but I haven't seen the Dems moving that way at all. Maybe they will after this defeat; who knows?
From what I can see, the parties have both been moving to the right for years. Not the people - the parties.
And does Trump's working class, anti-trade deal rhetoric match up with anything he'll actually do? No idea. It's certainly against everything the Republican machine stands for. It's hard to imagine Trump turning down the big cash from those big interests.
He's an unknown quantity…we'll have to see what happens I guess…
@ozone - I hear you. But a Clinton victory would continue the "complacent bubble" more than a Trump victory does. The media colluded with Hillary as the Democrats drifted further to the right, leaving most of America's citizens struggling more and more.
A racist pumpkin as President will outrage people. It already has. Things will HAVE to change.
That's maybe the best way to look at this. A shakeup of any stripe at least gets us off the path we were on. Of course there's always the risk we'll end up even worse off when all's said and done; change isn't always for the better. But it's a risk the American people seem resolved to take.
@Ozone: It's true, those things do happen, but they don't *just* happen. The conditions in America today aren't anywhere near what they were in, say, Colombia during La Violencia or any of Africa's countless ethnic killing fields.
The one good thing to come out Trump's election is that we won't end up with a completely out-of-balance Supreme Court, and one of the key ingredients in the large scale social strife you're worried about is a public that feels disenfranchised by their government. So crazy as it sounds, that actually helps, a little bit.
I'm actually more worried about what the public does right now than anything Trump may do. I can understand people being upset that their side lost (not just the Presidency, but Congress as well), but the protests going on are pointless and uncalled for. You need to at least give the new coalition a chance to govern, otherwise nationwide dysfunction is a foregone conclusion. It's sort of disingenuous to vote if you're only going to accept the outcome when your candidate wins.
El Cid wrote:
If you want to set a good example for your children, then instead of vilifying people you disagree with, you should at least make some attempt to understand where they're coming from – if for no other reason than because you just may end up having to work with them… like, maybe for the next four years at least.
I think you just summed up the biggest lesson to learn in this election. Over the past year there has been so much exaggerated hate flung from both sides that it has distorted our view of each other. Now the people who lost think they're being ruled over by vampire Hitlers.
Are our opponents vampire Hitlers? No. They're regular everyday people who have different opinions because events in their lives led them to think slightly differently from us. This applies to both sides. Certainly a side can be right or wrong, but both sides deserve to be humanized and understood.
Agree about the protest being pointless, and also quite ironic. To say, with Trump's victory, you are fearful for your personal welfare and then go out, protest and cause civil disruption (let's just hope it doesn't get too violent) is almost the definition of hypocrisy. It's like Fundie Muslims and Christians insisting theirs is a religion of peace but getting violently angry when someone pokes fun at their God, Saints, and Prophets…
And trust me, I live in Trump Country, and Trump supporters do not necessarily feel safe either… especially should they go to a bigger city wearing anything indicating they supported him (both prior to election and after).
example.
Some say, if Clinton had won, that there'd be mass protest from the Trump Supporters (not sure that's true, maybe only for reason that it's not as easy to mass protest outside the bigger cities, we just don't know…).
Regardless, we know who is protesting, acting scary, and have people fearful of full scale riots breaking out…
Wow, that video's pretty scary. I remember the video of that woman who got pelted with projectiles from an angry mob because she wore a Trump t-shirt in public. I don't think I ever got over my disgust from that moment on.
But hey, a Trump supporter punched one of those Black Lives Matter people, so I guess it's all even, right!
fallopiancrusader wrote:
What's really terrifying to me is imagining how Trump is going to re-decorate the white house! I imagine it will soon become the gold house… XD
Boob Hill.
One fascinating aspect of this election is the way that both parties showed a serious disconnect between the party establishment's agenda and the will of their respective electorates. The directorship both the Democratic and Republican parties expended prodigious effort to squash the nominations of Trump and Sanders. I wonder if this portends the fragmentation of the two-party system into a number of smaller boutique entities. Probably not, but it's an intriguing scenario.
More likely the parties adjust their platforms to reflect the new political atmosphere. Splitting up the parties would be the ultimate game of chicken; whoever splits first is basically consigning themselves to years of political irrelevancy.
I really think the way forward for the Democrats is going the Bernie Sanders route. If the Republicans consolidate their hold over blue collar working class voters, the Democrats can't survive as a coalition of middle-of-the-road bureaucrats and niche special interests. What else can they do?!
El Cid wrote:
I really think the way forward for the Democrats is going the Bernie Sanders route. If the Republicans consolidate their hold over blue collar working class voters, the Democrats can't survive as a coalition of middle-of-the-road bureaucrats and niche special interests. What else can they do?!
Absolutely agree. Bernie himself is still around, though he might be too old to run next time around. But there are other politicians out there who could step up. Nina Turner comes to mind. She's terrific.
Even if the Republicans don't hold the working class (it's hard to imagine they will. That would be a complete turnaround of the party), the Democrats need to go back there. Otherwise what's the point of them?
They've got to reject that corporate money and do what Bernie showed could be done. This will free them from this ridiculous double talk they need to do to pretend to be for the people while getting all their funding from special interests with agendas that run counter to the people.
And "coalition of middle-of-the-road bureaucrats" as a party identity gave me the biggest laugh I've had in awhile. Picturing that as a stated identity or campaign slogan. Beautiful. hahaha!
ozoneocean wrote:
I doubt it man, enemas are one of the biggest pseudo quack health scams of the modern age and tend to do more harm than good.
So that's probably an apt comparison XD
Logically, it's better for a president to be elected by a popular vote, people already have senators to represent them directly. That's a very silly, outdated system- but I'm only talking theory here because that's not going to change in the US
My point precisely. Though there are certain real medical problems that require an enema. But you're better off just making sure you have enough fiber in your diet. (In a political context: Get rid of incumbent politicians or GRIP a regular turn over of office holders like a regular bowel movement;)
The American electoral system was developed as a compromise. Therefore it will not please everyone but it is the best that could be achieved under the circumstances. And whenever a "law and order" candidate is elected, there are civil disturbances and protest and vice versa. It's a cycle that feeds on itself because in a system with free speech, public dissent and protest is a good thing. Let's those in charge know that there's work to be done. And change does come … eventually. Freaking takes forever but it does come.
By the way, there is a way to change the Constitution without going through the amendment system we are accustomed to; a convention of the states. If two thirds of the states send representatives to a convention they can change the Constitution. This was tried a number of times in the 19th century but it never got enough states to come so it always degenerated into talk of secession.
The more I read about the Founders of the American Republic the more I can understand their wisdom. They anticipated much of what goes on even today. Sure things go faster and people are informed faster (or told what opinions to form) but they anticipated it and created a system to deal with it. It isn't perfect but it does provide means of redress. Just got to give it time.
Every debate I ever saw or participated in about the Constitution, the person advocating junking this or that usually didn't understand the Constitution. Not read it or the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers or the processes of government or the historical precedents used and understood by the Founders. Usually they just dismiss them without knowing anything about them, let alone attempt to understand them. They foresaw populist demagogues and protest and riots. It's to be expected in a government. A little revolution is a good thing. But the legislative process is slow to make sure decisions are made wisely. Or not made or a compromise reached that addresses the problem. No one ever gets everything they want in compromise but at least you get something rather than a boot in your face.
KimLuster wrote:But what about the "glass ceiling?"
We should never ever, EVAR!, vote for someone based on physical stuff like gender or race, but… (non-logical part of me peeks in…) I really do hope we have a female POTUS someyear soon!!
Male penises will never stand for that!
Banes wrote:
It would be pretty cool to see a female President - totally on board with that! A lot of the most impressive politicians I see are women!
My sister would be perfect, but she's had a career as a lobbyist and her one brother does pornagraphic comics with dolls.
My supervisor is running in eight years on the angry black single mom platform.
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