I think I've heard some filmmaker or other talking about backgrounds…and it's not so much about the exact details that people will notice consciously…
…but having those great backgrounds is texture that FEELS real. So it matters greatly, even if people don't actually notice the particulars. It FEELS like a world that makes sense.
And for the few who DO notice the particulars, it's a bonus!
That weird paradox, I guess…kinda like the bass player in a band. If they're really good, people don't notice 'em. It's when they do it wRONG that they stand out!
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
Rant, moan, rave and share - for all your chatter, natter, ETCETERA!
Banes wrote:I have a theater background so I learned all that. There's the wonderful illusion of something whenin fact it isn't in the least bit real. Creating an atmosphere and faking a setting with a facade. In fact I've even been complimented on the set dressings in my comic. It looks believable and detailed. Some of it actually works like the real thing and others are just facade.
I think I've heard some filmmaker or other talking about backgrounds…and it's not so much about the exact details that people will notice consciously…
…but having those great backgrounds is texture that FEELS real. So it matters greatly, even if people don't actually notice the particulars. It FEELS like a world that makes sense.
The pain in the ass (damn donkey, ever try to deal with a donkey that has a pain?) is finding all the stuff and putting it where it won't disappear. I'm my own prop master and finding the specific property I want when I need it is a pain. When I don't need it, it gets in the way. When I do need it, I can't remember where I put it. Now is it with the furniture or is it with the medical accessories? Do I need to make up any boxes and containers?
And then when I keep all the stuff out the work area becomes very cluttered very quickly. Then ther are all those cast members just hanging about along with costumes and for the current production effects models. I'm just moaning and whining about something I shuold be doing that I am searching high and low for ways to put off doing. And people think I'm playing with toys.
*sigh* I guess multiplayer ME3 was fun, but not so much now. I found myself getting kicked off every team I try to join either because of my low N7 rating or because I don't have a microphone. So that's that. I can still enjoy the main single player campaign though…
My day off and I've got a nasty headcold. No need to describe what symptoms I have though. Time to go back to bed as sitting up is giving me a headache…
@ Bravo & Genejoke -
Definitely not a blister. It's still a mystery… It could've been the half insole in my shoes moving and pressing into the arch that caused an issue, or…
I remember now , the evening after the walk I was playing with my cat in the back garden when it was dark and I got bitten all over the feet by mozzies. It could have been a reaction to that and the whole walk thing was just a coincidence, hahaha!
The foot is mostly better now. ^_^
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The 1920s poster I'm working on is almost done! Unfortunately other work has been getting in the way slowing the whole things down… I ran into an issue with text placement and had a brainwave that solved everything! Where would artists be without on-the-fly inspiration???
One of the things preventing me from finishing it was this new job working on a T-shirt.
This class of kids in year 6 are "leaving", to go to a "middle school" I presume. Their teachers want a shirt made to commemorate it for them. They've given us some god AWFUL picture with is a stick figure parody of all the students sitting on some benches, with all their names next to them etc. It is as crude as all get out so I have to re-draw the entire thing in vector graphics to be able to make any use of it, which will take some time…
What I'm shocked at is the poor quality, When I was in year 6 I was far more skilled than that. I'm all for encouraging people to have a go and try and develop their artistic talent, especially on comics here at DD, but when you want something printed on stuff for people to wear and represent the group and something that's important to them you get a pro or the most seriously talented person you know.
There's no prejudice in that, it's just sense. If you want T-shirts or mugs or shoes or something you don't get a tyro to come up with the design for you.
What I'm guessing is that one of the more "popular" kids came up with the design because he or she is more visible and known and the teacher is an imbecile. There is no possible way that image represents the best of any given class of 11 year olds.
I know that makes me sound like an utter conceited bastard and wanker, maybe rightly, but I'm the one stuck with spending hours having to reproduce every angle and malformed line of this barely ordered scribble in vectors so I think I'm entitled to be a little miffed :(
-It's scribbley, half ordered line art so I can't rely on any vector auto-trace tools as a shortcut either -_-
ozoneocean wrote:Tee-hee considering I was considered the most talented artist in my class when I was 11 the field may not be full of talent as you think. That was out of 100 kids or so and I won school contests and everything. What someone is capable of as an adult is no indication of what a load of kids can do.
The foot is mostly better now. ^_^
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One of the things preventing me from finishing it was this new job working on a T-shirt.
What I'm shocked at is the poor quality, When I was in year 6 I was far more skilled than that. but when you want something printed on stuff for people to wear and represent the group and something that's important to them you get a pro or the most seriously talented person you know.
There's no prejudice in that, it's just sense. If you want T-shirts or mugs or shoes or something you don't get a tyro to come up with the design for you.
What I'm guessing is that one of the more "popular" kids came up with the design because he or she is more visible and known and the teacher is an imbecile.
I was even chosen best artist in my basic training class and NCO school class. I had to draw everything for everyone else who wanted something drawn. Got out a pile of nasty "shit" details when I was drawing.
So what you as a professional should think they do has nothing to do with what a class of kids and their teacher think should be done. Some pretty bad artists can be the ones chosen to do all the artistic work in various school classes.
I've seen some of your drawings Bravo, you're pretty good.
These are 11 year old kids and these are stick figure caricatures, it's pretty bad, scribly crap. I have some of my drawings from when I was 11 and younger and this pic is equivalent to about a 5 year old level for me.
I've also seen plenty of other talented kids drawings in my time, and this one isn't in the ball park.
The only reason I can think of this being chosen is favouritism. And that's pretty common in classrooms. The creative arty kids don't always come to the fore, especially when the teacher in charge is a dim bulb.
It could've even been the result of a popular vote and those always produce crap when it comes to art. ^_^
ozoneocean wrote:It could definitely be favoritism or it could be something else: when adults themselves draw stick figures as representative art of what kids would do. It is SO condescending, but some people see it as "cute" – something that the "kids would identify with."
I've seen some of your drawings Bravo, you're pretty good.
These are 11 year old kids and these are stick figure caricatures, it's pretty bad, scribly crap. I have some of my drawings from when I was 11 and younger and this pic is equivalent to about a 5 year old level for me.
I've also seen plenty of other talented kids drawings in my time, and this one isn't in the ball park.
The only reason I can think of this being chosen is favouritism. And that's pretty common in classrooms. The creative arty kids don't always come to the fore, especially when the teacher in charge is a dim bulb.
It could've even been the result of a popular vote and those always produce crap when it comes to art. ^_^
I know that wasn't the case when my daughter was growing up. Her kindergarden teacher told me about one day when the teacher drew a lion on the blackboard. My daughter mumbled, "you call That a lion?" So the teacher told her that if she thought she could do better, she was welcome to try.
And so my daughter went up to the board and drew her own lion. And the teacher told me: "It was better."
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speaking of drawing . . . and I'm thinking of YOU Hippy Van, and YOU Ironscarf . . . all of YOU rants and rave-types
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Wow… I think there are like 4 different topics here on one page…. I"M SO PROUD OF YOU ALL!!! :')
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@Oz: …. we aren't allowed to be curing people on here?? Personally if I'm needing medical attention I'll take any healing I can get. Anyone on here have any ideas to cure a stress/lack of sleep caused upset stomach??
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You know… I've met transgenders both natural and… less natural… crossdressers… and just oddly built guys and girls but the one thing that I've found usually gives them away are their faces. There's something about the eyes, cheeks, chin, and sometimes noses that kind of just gives it away what gender they started as. At least I haven't been made a wrong guess on that one yet.
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Yes all celebrities are totally on here all the time. That's why I keep trying to get drunkducker's autographs. Want a real surprise? learn what Skoolmunkee's and Oz's celebrity identities are!
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@Oz: XKCD and Cyanide and Happiness…. enough said :P
It was ironic that I spent my childhood trying to avoid drawing stick figures and then when I went to my first figure drawing class on the first day they taught me to draw… stick figures.
@Ayes: that exact incident happened when I was in kindergarten, except it wasn't lions, it was fire engines. I still can't draw lions without reference.
Oh god, don't get me started on T-shirt design. I was working a job for about 3 months at a company that specialized in T-shirt graphics for custom printing, retail and all that. It's amazing what garbage people will send to you, thinking they're doing you a favor. It makes my skin crawl thinking of the number of times I could have created something better suited to their company, faster and easier than trying to make the graphics they sent me useable.
In general though, I'll admit I'm a bit wary on the whole retail/clothing graphics industry. My average work day was 17 hours a day, 6 days a week, with a boss whose main method of motivating his employees was "scream, threaten and throw tantrums when they don't read my mind". Turns out that the average duration of a designer at this job was less than two months. Most of them either got fed up and quit or were "laid off" when the bosses couldn't break them, and apparently that's not at all uncommon in the industry.
Not sure where I was going with this really. Maybe just a warning to those who dream of working in the fashion industry?
edit: ok, on second reading that sounds a lot more negative than I intended. I don't want to scare anyone off of their dreams of being a designer. The whole design industry isn't that bad.
PIT_FACE wrote:You weren't? I could swear you played that attractive Resistance woman in all those episodes.
so sick! fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk………..
every time i fall asleep i think im in Hogan's Heroes.
That is one reason I don't do a war comic. I'd rather dream about hokey Sci-fi stories than World War II. I hate the smell of wet wool as in WWII period uniforms. A very specific smell that is hard to get out of my nose. It always manages to penetrate any stuffed nose I''ve ever had because it's almost an atmosphere rather than just a smell. It becomes something you live as opposed to just smell and move on.
That and running around in the rain and snow.
Instead I read book after book about POWs in WWII and see where they got all the ideas for the movies and TV shows.
You realize I got this ad for military reinactments featuring some very convincingly uniformed and equipped Germans standing in the back of a German truck?
@Pit - You poor thing! Eat some chickens in a soup!!!
@ Bravo - Yes, wet wool is nasty! I bought this magnifficent pair of wool tweed trousers on the old fashioned "Oxford bags" style a while ago. They look great, but you can NOT wear and wear them like any other pair of trousers- the bag at the knees if you wear them too much between washing and ironing. And worst of all- The smell.
I DO NOT wear them in the rain because that wet wool smell is severe and it just won't go away. Ironing them isn't too nice either.
@ lba - Yup, clothing is the worst. The very, utterly, bottom of the barrel worst. We have far, FAR more issues at work with clothing that anything and everything else combined.
buuuut… I don't work many hours there, and when It's time to go home I'm out the door, no ifs ands or buts. If it doesn't get finished it waits for the next day. I've only stayed late 3 times in the years I've worked there: twice because I forgot what time it was and once as an extra special favour to finish something that was extremely time critical, but I went home early the next day to make up for it :)
@ Ayes - Yes, I'd considered it being a teacher's impression of a kid's drawing. It's very possible! My current thinking is that the pic was deliberately chosen, with that horrible quality, because it's a sort of patronisingly naive representation of "kidishness".
Either because one of the less talented kids drew it or the teacher drew it to make it look like kid's pic. Either way, it's at a 5 year old's level.
@ Macattack - Yes the face "tell" with transgenders is a good one but not foolproof either.
It has to do with the subcutaneous fat layer, as you probably know: Women have more of that in general, which rounds off all features, muscles and bones…
But of course that is just as fallible as all the other factors. Women with low fat levels due to age, exercise, or illness lose it and get all the prominent features that men do. And some men naturally have that layer too- especially some Indian and east Asian people.
I once knew a horrible little short gnome of a guy with scraggly horrible hair all over his face, a mean little bogan/chav/red-neck sort of a person. But the funny thing was even though he was skinny he had that thick "feminine" subcutaneous fat layer all over so his features, especially his face was rounder and smoother than a normal guy, so that in spite of his nasty beard and disgusting habits he looked extremely girlish.
ozoneocean wrote:I just had some chicken soup.
@Pit - You poor thing! Eat some chickens in a soup!!!
@ Bravo - Yes, wet wool is nasty! I bought this magnifficent pair of wool tweed trousers on the old fashioned "Oxford bags" style a while ago. They look great, but you can NOT wear and wear them like any other pair of trousers- the bag at the knees if you wear them too much between washing and ironing. And worst of all- The smell.
I went to a reinactment the day after it rained. The wet wool smell was everywhere and in everything. It also didn't help that the cavalry was there too. It really felt like I was there, it definitely smelled like it. And it didn't help that my seats were right behind the Confederate Artillery. The wife and I got the third wonderful smell of the premodern battlefield. Black powder.
Personally I prefer cordite and diesel exhaust but that's just me. Still I had a wool sweater and scarf and they stunk and it always rained when in the field but nothing beats that wonderful heavy wool US issue blanket for being warm. You know the dark green one with the huge U.S. on it. But when I was in you couldn't have the U.S. showing since we weren't at war. Once Desert Storm started we turned them over.
Once upon a time I collected World War II uniforms and one of the reasons I got rid of them was the heavy wool smell. I had three sets of British World War II Battle Dress and man it stank after running around it it for a few hours. I can barely imagine living in it for weeks at a time. But gosh it was warm and cozy in the snow as raw wool is supposed to shed water and this did! But it still stunk.
Well I haven't used my traditional comic medium(mspaint) in quiet some time but I've had some creative outburst through (le gasp) drawing…. with a pencill and pen! (what sor of madness is that!)
I'll admit, it's mostly abstract form with some text scrabbled around it, but hey it's something. When I realized that yesterday I decided to make some of my more traditional art (Bobby, yay!)… it felt awfully good.
ozoneocean wrote:@ lba - Yup, clothing is the worst. The very, utterly, bottom of the barrel worst. We have far, FAR more issues at work with clothing that anything and everything else combined. buuuut… I don't work many hours there, and when It's time to go home I'm out the door, no ifs ands or buts. If it doesn't get finished it waits for the next day. I've only stayed late 3 times in the years I've worked there: twice because I forgot what time it was and once as an extra special favour to finish something that was extremely time critical, but I went home early the next day to make up for it :)
I get the impression that it's a uniquely American recent trend for workers to be staying later and later past 5 pm and consider it normal. I'd really really like to hope so, because it means that once I'm done with my time in service, I could move to Britain, Australia, etc. and keep normal people hours. Not that I likely ever would do so, but the thought that somewhere in the world they haven't lost their minds and starting considering 9 pm an acceptable quitting time is quite a nice thought.
@ Pit - I hear ya. We finally got nice weather around here two days ago so I uncovered the windows and opened them for a nice waft of that spring breeze. Two hours later, I've got a sore throat and I'm running through rolls of toilet paper left and right because we're out of tissue already. I wish it were just allergies since those I can make go away, but I don't have any. Try tossing some garlic in that soup too. It's about the only thing I've found that ever seems to speed up the process of being sick.
Just got my first look at the Multicam uniforms we're supposed to be getting soon. I couldn't be happier. With the old ACU "digital" camo, you couldn't hide from anyone if you were covered in mud and invisible. Whatever genius dreamed up the idea of trying to use little straight-edge squares as a means of hiding people must have been asleep through all his art history and boyscout classes. There are no straight lines in nature. You end up sticking out like a sore thumb. These new ones might actually have some measure of effectiveness to them.
PIT_FACE wrote:
lba- garlic, hey that wouldnt be to bad! i love garlic! ill give it a try. and yeah, must just be that time of year.ussually doesnt mow me over THIS bad but eh, im starting to come back to life i think….i hope. thank you!
Aw-Pit. Sorry to read you've been hit with a rhino. I highly recommend adding Real grape juice, some zinc supplement (maybe 50 or 100 Mg), and, if you can get it, "royal jelly" or unprocessed (raw) honey to the anecdote list. Hope you have someone who can shop for you.
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Still looking for some artists for the radio play comic
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@Iba - first of all, how do you say that? ( I keep thinking eeeee-bah). Yeah, I think you're on the right track for looking to outside the US for reasonable work days (except Japan, from what I've heard). I've been jealous of Europe for Years for getting the month of August off (or is that some kind of global/urban legend?)
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STILL needing artists for the radio play (I can keep this up all day, folks)
Tried to draw comics again, but woke up with my face in my keyboard a half hour later. Seems when I'm doing something that's interesting I fall asleep, yet the boring things keep me awake hours on end… How bad is it? I was playing ME3 yesterday, but woke up some time later on the floor with my controller someplace next to me and my XBox having lost its connection…
Okay… it's even worse now. I fell asleep reading the forums…
lba wrote:Actually they're based on a sound principle in camouflage. Dual-tex square camo was tried out in the 1980s and worked quite well on large vehicles but was really hard to paint. It's not to disappear but to make it really hard to make out what is being observed.
Just got my first look at the Multicam uniforms we're supposed to be getting soon. I couldn't be happier. With the old ACU "digital" camo, you couldn't hide from anyone if you were covered in mud and invisible. Whatever genius dreamed up the idea of trying to use little straight-edge squares as a means of hiding people must have been asleep through all his art history and boyscout classes. There are no straight lines in nature. You end up sticking out like a sore thumb. These new ones might actually have some measure of effectiveness to them.
The German Fleckwear is based on the same principle of "dots" except the Germans knew not to use little squares. In fact they developed it back in WWII as the infamous SS polka-dot camouflage and the panzer "ambush" scheme.
That whole straight line thing is true but one doesn't want to necessarily blend in as make it hard to identify what is being seen. Some of the best camouflage at sea is razor sharp zig-zag bands of blues and greys. The eye can't focus on what is seen or be able to tell what is being seen or what direction it is going.
So the ACU does work but the new one is better. Thank heavens I got out when we had the old BDUs but then as a tank crewman I still wouldn't have ever experienced ACUs and would have been stuck in those nomex coveralls. Nomex doesn't breathe at all. You just sweat and sweat and sweat but look so cool like a jet pilot type.
@Ayes - it'ts actlly an "L" in his nick, so it'd be "EL-bar" or "EL-bu" or something I think.
@Bravo - I love the 1980s "Berlin" camouflage scheme for British vehicles in German cities. They had lots of straight lines, but the idea WAS for them to blend in with the surroundings , not just to break up the image and confuse you in this case - because obviously 80s Berlin was grey and full of right angles…
And speaking of camouflage apparently in some squads in the Russian army (I don't know if it's universal, only for missions that require it or what), there are about 5 different patterns a coloured styles of camouflage that are worn. When I learned that it explained so much! In most of the pics of Russian soldiers all dressed up in different colours I thought they were mercenaries, vigilantes, militia or some other for of irregulars, but it's actually a standard practise so they don't all look like a group- to confuse the observer etc…
Weird and interesting! But ugly. :(
Ha! Bravo would know ^_^
Well that's just an 80s Chieftain (which I LOVE the look of because they're so asymmetrical), so it'll be an easy wiki search… Wiki says 120mm, which is what I remembered it was so that's cool :D
My answer to "how large can the gun be and still be a tank":
As big as you can possibly get!
Gun size doesn't matter, it's how the vehicle is supposed to be used…
So if the gun is too big that it can't be fired while the tank is moving, or you can't store enough shells in there, or it takes you 20 minutes to turn the turret and raise and lower the main gun or whatever then it obviously can't function as an MBT, can it?
I think that's the answer.
An MBT has to be able to get out there in the thick of it, be able to take heavy fire and deliver it. If it can't do that it's not an MBT anymore.
Also, I think gun size is traditionally determined by how powerful a projectile you need to be sure of piercing enemy armour…
Which is a little fuzzy since most armour piecing shells (as far as I know) are DU or tungsten sabots (hard solid metal spears). They're a lot narrower than the barrels and have a wide casing around the outside so they'll fit firmly inside (and contains the propellant) which is discarded when fired. So barrel size doesn't actually matter in that case!
And for those 80s chieftains and many other tanks the barrel is rifled for the standard HE (high explosive) rounds, but sabots don't NEED rotation to stay on target since most of them have fins (I think), so they had to be designed to work against the effects of the barrel…
I think most modern guns are smoothebore so that's not an issue anymore.
Maybe they don't even need the discarding case any longer… My knowledge is all from late 70s and early 80s reference books.
-(as a little kid I obsessively, autistically read through reference books on AFVs)
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