and you're free to do so if you wish.
but the ads keep the site afloat. dylan used to support this site with his own money, but it became too costly when it became popular..so we have platinum backing.
but a business only invests if they can make a profit and not just breaking even.
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and you're free to do so if you wish.
but the ads keep the site afloat. dylan used to support this site with his own money, but it became too costly when it became popular..so we have platinum backing.
but a business only invests if they can make a profit and not just breaking even.
I really don't see anyone saying that they want all the ads removed altogether. It's really just that one under the comics that's getting people's hackles up. And as I said - it would even be fine with me if we had the option of paying a subscription fee to get that ad removed, but we don't have any choice in the matter as it stands right now. It's being shoved there, and you seem to be saying "love it or leave", which is not really a good attitude for a business to have.
People are expressing legitimate concerns and offering compromises - having such a closed-doors attitude is a surefire way to turn people off.
How about having the ad show only for people who aren't logged in? :/
and you're free to do so if you wish.
but the ads keep the site afloat. dylan used to support this site with his own money, but it became too costly when it became popular..so we have platinum backing.
but a business only invests if they can make a profit and not just breaking even.
Of course there is the added bonus for Platinum that they get to invite DD creators to compete in a contest to see who can be the first to turn over their creator rights. Sort of a fertile field, wouldn't you say?
Also, just comparing hits alone, which site gets more views per day, DD or Platinum?
So, if you're looking at the big picture, having Drunkduck "break even" is actually what Platinum should want. It's a large, happy place with thousands of users they get to showcase their product to, plus the added bonus of picking through user material to make their "next big thing".
If I were them, I'd offer the users premium services at a modest fee instead of putting ads in places that could turn this place into Geocities.
A user poll and a discussion would probably have been a better idea than to just hope that no one cared.
I'd like to chime in on the ads thing a moment. I kind of find the ones by the nav buttons annoying in the way they're sized and bumping down the page, BUT knowing the ad world, I know that is prime real estate for ad sales for Drunk Duck. I think Dylan's idea of having a shared "DD user ads" rotating when there are gaps between paying ads is ideal for building your own readership numbers too.
What bugs me is, when I go to comic here, who has "satellite" sites elsewhere, and they are actively saying "do not click the unendorsed ad"– that's doing Drunk Duck a diservice, especially after they're giving you another outlet for your work. People who don't like the ads could go read your comic on your own hosted site, or the 3 other sites you run your comic on. So if you're here looking for extra readers, you're using Drunk Duck and they don't mind or care, but actively telling people not to click the ads is sort of bad then.
I can host my own sites elsewhere, but I think if I were launching something new, I'd use Drunk Duck for the sheer easyness and built in audience and community that's here already.
Maybe DD can setup a "pay" host side, that's like cheap to not have ads run on your templates? I don't know, it's up to them of course, but yeah, they're paying a lot for shows and they don't have much merchandise, so what's the big deal in selling some ad space? I'm sure they'll figure out placement as they go. Chill!
Ok, so I did over react. But seriously! We don't care about Gods of Arkelaan, or Hero by Night (no offense to the authors) but if we care, we read those comics. Even so, they are both in the top 10 stories as well. But world of warcraft is going to far. And then they had the ads about getting women. CRAZY MUCH?
an obnoxious banner right there not only spoils that but the whole colour coordination of my pages and the delicate symmetrical balance of zen…
Is it zen? Or is it more a matter of bad feng shui?
;-)
P.S. To Volte, your puny Warcraft Ads won't make me want to go back to that game. Tell Blizzard if they want my business back, to make a better game! The Burning Crusade is horrible. I told them that already, but they didn't listen. Maybe Conan or Warhammer will make them perk up. Or maybe not, since gold farmers keep their subs in the millions!
P.P.S. My tone in the above P.S. isn't meant to be mean. I'm being a bit of a smart aleck. But I'm not like super serious about it. I just wanted to riff on WoW a bit. Re-reading the post made me realize that my humor may be lost and that it might be read as an aggressive postscript. So here's an edit to clarify.
I tried to post this eariler today but the site like…crashed and no comics existed for a hour or more….but the main page had a Dell pop up!! EKKK.
Original message:
Maybe none of you remember, but before that New Year Crash 2 years ago (I think?) we did have a pay membership that removed adds when they browsed (not that it removed it permately on their site for non-subscribed ducklings). Did everyone just forget about this? Or maybe I'm just old -_-' alot of people left after that because the coding was obliterated. I'm sure I'm not the only one who stuck around.
And…it does seem unfair that some comics get more attention than others. It was the same complaints about the top 10 lists, but now it's adverts. I dunno, but if someone is reading my comic, do I really want them clicking on someone else's comic that I don't endorse myself (mostly because it's plastered everywhere), potentially leaving my work on the back burner? oh, yea, thanks >_<
And I agree with Roguehill 100%. Platinum wants good ideas to be signed to them-and quite frankly, dd is like a massive portfolio that they can flip through for each of us for potential publishing. I'm not saying that they steal our work, or publish without permission, like some believe, but they do have a GREAT posistion, don't they? Maybe breaking even is what they should pray for, since some of the more talented people are doing them a service by selling their creative rights to them.
I'm not saying that they steal our work, or publish without permission, like some believe, but they do have a GREAT posistion, don't they? Maybe breaking even is what they should pray for, since some of the more talented people are doing them a service by selling their creative rights to them.
Here's an interesting curveball, which I think ought to maybe even be its own topic of discussion, but is certainly related to this one …
With comic book sales being what they are today (pretty low across the board), is it really the published/printed material that is going to help Platinum at this point? Or is the web comics side of the industry the more lucrative path?
Perhaps the web based part of it is where the money is to be made? See, I'm mainly drawing on the western super hero comics experience of mine, but mainstream super hero comics are really kind of struggling to get over these days. Maybe Platinum sees the web as a way to make better profits than the printed books?
I don't know. It's just a thought I've been having lately. And this thought was actually stirred back to the forefront of my mind at Wizard World Philly … at the Drunk Duck panel.
Hmmmmmm.
I'm not bothered about the fact there are adverts, you see those every where these days but I'm sick to death of those bloody 'Flirt-o-matic' adverts. If I wanted to see some women with her skirt up her ass I'd look for a site specifically with that content. Yes the world of warcraft advert does slow the system down due to the graphics but there's nothing offensive in that.
Maybe none of you remember, but before that New Year Crash 2 years ago (I think?) we did have a pay membership that removed adds when they browsed (not that it removed it permately on their site for non-subscribed ducklings). Did everyone just forget about this? Or maybe I'm just old -_-' alot of people left after that because the coding was obliterated. I'm sure I'm not the only one who stuck around.
If that's the case is Drunk Duck gonna refund the money that the people paid to remove the adverts from their users? :neenjah:
With comic book sales being what they are today (pretty low across the board), is it really the published/printed material that is going to help Platinum at this point? Or is the web comics side of the industry the more lucrative path?
You're absolutely right, Steve. And Platinum Studios said as much the day they announced the acquisition. I told my longtime friend and editor Dan: "When Penny Arcade mocked Platinum Studios for their comments about 'discovering' webcomics, they missed the point." Webcomics are the future because you no longer have to go to stuck-up and stodgy, tradition steeped publishing houses and distributors to get your voice heard. The internet is a revolution… no, an evolutionfor an entire industry. Think about it: no editors, no deadlines. You can go directly from creation to production in a matter of minutes with no middlemen. And in enough time, you can go directly to merchandising! With a free CafePress shop and a logotype of your own creation, you too can become a media mogul! (of Podunk, USA lol)
I have no problems with the ads. I'm not thrilled with the positioning, but oh well. Given what we get here for our lack of money, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to turn this place into Geocities.
i don't really have a problem with where the ads are placed but it all depends on the type of advert! The Flirt-o-Matic is horrible! younger kids use this site and that is not something that they need to be exposed to! Would you appreciate your children seeing these kind of images supposing that you have children. To me it makes no difference whether it is cartoon or not it is a site for complete and utter losers that have nothing better to do than try and find somebody over the internet because they are otherwise unable to woo someone.
Excuse me, but I take great offense to what you just said. I met both my best friend and my girlfriend (of 4 years, and whom I love very much) over the internet. Though I think that those ads on comics themselves is rather tasteless, the people who look online aren't all losers at all. Granted some are crazy, but that's another story :)Yes indeed… It's not a good idea to generalise about people that date online.
This discussion is NOT about the content of the adds on DD it primarily concerns the add placement on people's comic pages, please stick to this issue ok?
If you want to talk about dating, and the rights and wrongs of it please restrict that to PQs ^^
So far several compromises have been made:
*The adds have been incorporated into the Tag bar.
*They've been justified to the left hand side instead of centred.
*The text "sponsor" has been added to the area they're displayed in.
*The adds at the bottoms of people pages have been removed.
These are positive results and show that the community is being listened to.
So far several compromises have been made:
*The adds have been incorporated into the Tag bar.
*They've been justified to the left hand side instead of centred.
*The text "sponsor" has been added to the area they're displayed in.
*The adds at the bottoms of people pages have been removed.
These are positive results and show that the community is being listened to.
Very acceptable. I am pleased, and if I'm happy, then its not even an issue anymore.
The great drunk duck forum drama and flame war of summer 2006 is finally at an end. Now we can look forward to the great invasion of fall 2006 and the horrible hang ups of winter 06. Just kidding of course, this is decent enough guys.
The sponser tag's all I needed. Its calmed my roid rage, so none of you have to worry about being strangled.
umm…you get a free site.I'm hardly going to pack my bags for Smackjeeves over an advert banner… I'm not quite that petty. ;) I'd rather bitchmoan about it in the forums and see some sort of change come by than abandon my readers~ I'm infinately grateful that DD is letting me host my work here and gain lots of new friends… and of course I appreciate all the cool changes there have been and that DD has to keep itself afloat somehow - I just think the higher ups should appreciate that we create the content that brings people to this site site and at least give us the freedom to have our navigation buttons right underneath our comic pages~
with unlimited space for your archive
So far several compromises have been made:I must admit, the "sponsor" things and they grey surround do make the banner seem less obtusive and at least now it's clear that it's not the author themselves putting it there. It's good to see something's changed~ I've put another set of navigation buttons above my comic too so thet they're more visible… It's not ideal but eh, compromise will have to do.
*The adds have been incorporated into the Tag bar.
*They've been justified to the left hand side instead of centred.
*The text "sponsor" has been added to the area they're displayed in.
*The adds at the bottoms of people pages have been removed.
These are positive results and show that the community is being listened to.
I don't feel that any attempts other than futile words have been spouted to appease the "ad" below the comic situation.
Great, now it says sponsor, but it's huge and still stretches out the design of the template (that, I'm sorry I spent months trying to do, I'm not as talented as some.) So, yeah…I'm horked off.
Yes, hosting is free. I appreciate that.
But, like others before me have pointed out, "we supply the content." If we banded together and all posted a Duck holdin' that Norma Rae sign for a coulpa' weeks, maybe the preservation of the "creative space" would actually be rethought. (As it stands, it's not…The ad is there, it's goin' there and we should shut our gobs and appreciate all that DD or PS deem to grace us with.)
The word "community" is thrown around a lot. (I do not think it means what you think it means.)
In the realm of education, "community" is a buzzword. My last year teaching, I taught students that had commited felonies. (I'm talkin' cop killers, rapist, arsonist…) Baddddd Seeds. Real "Good Son." Anyway, I endorsed the philosophy of a "classroom community." I was the only teacher in the entire building of 123 teachers that never had a behavioral problem, and actually got these F students, that hadn't participated in school for years to turn in every assignment, and they did them well. Trust me, I understand how to foster a sense of; pride, communication, ownership, and risk-free expression. We have a long way to go in that sense of the term. The disrespect I have seen exhibited in the form of "personal attacks" on individuals astounds me; oh my lord, didn't your parental figures teach you better? I don't own a company or anything; I am knowledgable, yet ignorant with "Business Management." But, I'm intelligent enough to anticipate problems and realize, free or not…That you have a client base, without which, you have no product and happy workers are better workers.
That's what we are people, workers and most of us, do it for absolutly nothing. Doesn't mean we're going to "Thank you, sir." and ask for "another." when we feel ignored or taken for granted. We deserve that right and to not voice your concerns, or to feel afraid that you'll be ostrized for voicing your displeasure, that's not a community, in the utopian sense of the word.
At best, we are simply a group of individuals that share the common interest of webcomics and as long as we keep it at that level; exploitation, misunderstanding, and lack of appreciation will abound.
That being said. I still feel that Drunk Duck is the most user friendly of the webcomic hosting availabilities out there. I want to get to know many people in the "community" better, they make me smile and I am enjoying the social aspect of webcomics. But, in the past few days, I've seen a dirty underbelly.
"The Drunk Duck you live in is just a sugar-coated topping. There is another Drunk Duck beneath it. The real Drunk Duck."
I'm just mad I have to start over with the HTML, she is my arch-nemesis.
I'm somewhat confused by the decision to ADD a banner right UNDER everyone's comic and REMOVE a banner from the bottom. If the goal was MORE advertising real-estate, then you've defeated the purpose. Top and bottom ads have been the mainstay of the Internet since… well, the beginning of the internet. By taking away the bottom ad and replacing it with a middle one, it kinda makes the whole "prime real-estate" argument a whitewash.
I'm also a little confused about the removal of the ad on the bottom - I didn't hear anyone complaining about that one whatsoever (in fact, most people seemed to be saying they were fine with that one and the top one), so I don't really see it as part of any sort of "compromise".
As for it not being centered now - that actually drives me batty, but it could just be because I like centered things. :p Everything in my layout is centered except that ad now, and it makes me twitch every time I see it. However, I'm willing to accept that it's just me with that particular problem.
By taking away the bottom ad and replacing it with a middle one, it kinda makes the whole "prime real-estate" argument a whitewash.It's a compromise: by removing the bottom add which likely wasn't such a great placement anyway, the middle add (which is a much better placement from an advertising point of view) has in a sense been traded for the bottom one. It shows a spirit of give and take- this change has been made to try and appease all the people here who've voiced their say on the matter. :)
That's a fairly significant win, I wouldn't want to give that one away so easily…
It's a compromise: by removing the bottom add which likely wasn't such a great placement anyway, the middle add (which is a much better placement from an advertising point of view) has in a sense been traded for the bottom one. It shows a spirit of give and take- this change has been made to try and appease all the people here who've voiced their say on the matter. :)
That's a fairly significant win, I wouldn't want to give that one away so easily…
But the bottom one wasn't bothering anyone. In fact, I hardly even noticed it was there most of the time, which, of course, means that it wasn't really a very good spot for an ad, which is what I'm sure the point is, and why it was removed so easily. =p I wouldn't call it a "significant win" by a long stretch. I'm not really "appeased" by a compromise that involves removing something that nobody was complaining about and not really doing much with the thing that everyone was (except pushing it off-center, which I still don't really understand the point of). =p
The only real compromise I saw was the "sponsor" tags being put around it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they're listening. I just don't think that this was much of a deal in the grand scheme of things, lol.
That's a fairly significant win, I wouldn't want to give that one away so easily…
I hate to break it to you, Ozone, but that's not a win at all. That's like going to ask your boss for a raise, and accepting a spiffy title instead. It's relatively meaningless, and you didn't get anything that you wanted.
People didn't mind the ad there, so giving that up for a far worse placement is actually a huge loss. You gave up something you didn't care about in order to get something that you hate. More importantly, as you said it wasn't a great advertising spot anyway, so platinum doesn't really care about it either.
For you: +3 win, -150 loss for a net of -147.
For them: +50 win, -5 loss for a net of +45.
It's totally understandable to want to make as much money from DD as possible, but the people are angry with the placement of one ad more than they are the number of ads, and this crumb of a gesture is only meant to placate those who can't see it for what it is.
That's not a shot at Dylan, or at Platinum, because I do think that they are trying hard to find a good compromise at all, and I applaud their efforts. I'm just saying it ain't a diamond that they gave you there. It's a piece of glass.
Agreed. It's a little like how the United States gave up their aging and obsolete Jupiter Missile bases on Turkey to help the Soviet Union save face in the 1960's. Drunk Duck gave up something they didn't need/receive benefit from in exchange for something that, while possibly improving ad revenue, does nothing for the community members who's content brings people here to look at advertising in the first place. I don't see the compromise, because there is none.
But the bottom one wasn't bothering anyone. In fact, I hardly even noticed it was there most of the time
I think you answered your own question.
It was bad (business) placement to put it at the bottom where no one can see it and not many would want to buy that ad space (would you have paid for that spot).
It's like trying to sell ad space on the bottom of your shoe.
Taking it off the bottom will help with load times on the pages and keep bandwidth down on the whole site.
But the bottom one wasn't bothering anyone. In fact, I hardly even noticed it was there most of the time
I think you answered your own question.
Yes, I answered my own question in the continuation of my sentence. =p I understand completely why it was removed.
But the bottom one wasn't bothering anyone. In fact, I hardly even noticed it was there most of the time, which, of course, means that it wasn't really a very good spot for an ad, which is what I'm sure the point is, and why it was removed so easily.
Taking it off the bottom will help with load times on the pages and keep bandwidth down on the whole site.
A negligible gain. Ad banners are deliberately created to be small. It would be equivalent to me taking the Spam Poison link off my old homepage. Ads generally do not significantly affect load-times. I don't notice any difference now because the webpage load was counter-balanced by adding a new banner. 1-1+1=1.
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