Indoctrination… that's probably why they do it. Heck… from what I hear the Catholic Bible is the bible, but rewritten to conform to "Catholic" standards. And it looks like it's worked so far…
And after playing Mass Effect 3 I wonder if some real world dictators and others like them are searching for a way to achieve it the way the reapers did… with some device that subtly changes the beliefs of all who are exposed to it so they agree with that leader… or something like that…
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Comic Talk and General Discussion *
Rant, moan, rave and share - for all your chatter, natter, ETCETERA!
No… That bible thing is just protestant propaganda- you know, after the Reformation, the massive schism that saw the creation of Protestant Christian movements in Western Europe there was quite a LOT of acrimony on both sides, and lots of really bad, vicious lies, to say the least.
And that's a dumb one when you think about it… The original bibles were written in Greek and then Latin. The earliest main Christian movements were the Eastern and Western Roman ones. And those split with the empire.
In the East the Byzantine descended Orthodox followed the Greek traditions, and in the West the Roman descended Catholics followed the Latin ones.
The first major, deliberate rewrites of the Bible were by the non-catholic proto-protestant movements, writing in common language, rather than Latin, which not many common people spoke. That's part of the reason for the schism, because the priest was no longer the sole mediator between "god" and the people… the other being of course that local authorities sought to decentralise power away from Rome…
Bravo will talk your ear off about all that and correct me till he's blue in the fingers most likely ;)
The point is that everyone has had a go at rewriting the books of the bible… and there's nothing wrong with that since it's their holy-books to do as they chose, but the Catholics are in no way more responsible for that than any other Christian sect.
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Ah feels good to man-splain again! ^_^
With Schools and corporations though, they're not really indoctrinating anyone, because anyone with a brain knows that "striving for excellence" stuff is shit… so I think it's more about bored, or extremely deluded administrators or HR people who have some sort of childish god complex and use that sort of thing as an outlet.
When what people SHOULD be doing is hunting down anyone like that in their insinuation and delivering them straight to the loony bin!
Actually the Catholics have an extensive catechism for believers that spells out how someone is to interpret the Bible. Outside the inclusion of the Apocophrya the actual text is nearly identical between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles.
Protestants are supposed to be left up to themselves to interpet the Bible. ANd alreay my fingers are turning purple. Weather changed and my wirst is killing me.
The OT was originally in Hebrew. However it was translated into Greek because that was the language of the Hellenic World. The Hebrew was lost because there not a whole lot of texts. It would then be retranslated into Hebrew just before the time of Jesus and that was translated into Latin. This is why older texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls and Damascus Codex are so valuabel as they are older translations and are pure texts as opposed to one that's been copied over again and again by a hungry, sleep-deprieved monk.
There are words that were changed on purpose and those changed because the translator just wasn't that good at the language he was writing (like how Classical Latin devolved into Medieval Latin and everyone was estactic to read the original Greek or even Latin) Most of the purposeful retranslation of the Bible was done by the Council of Niccea and that was sixteen hundred years ago. Since then it's been rediscovering the original words of god , looking for older more pure texts and re-re-re interpreting what is written. Like the whole thing of young woman versus virgin and the adding in the prophesies after the event.
That's the great thing when not too many people read and remember. A small group can rewrite what happened and when translating language can rewrite what was said to suit themselves. At this late date as far as Christianity goes all the damage has already been done. No new texts will suddenly blow the lid off of anything and there are no groups suppressing information anymore no matter how many novelists would like to think so.
Ozone is right!
Orthodox Christian customs and etiquette is derived mainly from Byzantine traditions, and the Byzantium was the greek-roman part/element of the Roman empire.
The Gospels were written (three out of four I think) in Greek to make their dissemination easier at the time, since at the time Greek was the lingua franca along with Latin. If the spread of Christianity had taken place now, all the Gospels would have been originally written in English. It's just as simple as that.
However, rewrites and unsolicited additions in the Bible are thought of to have taken place since before there was a New Testament so the rule of thumb is to go with what is considered the core teachings of Christianity and what has been handed down as being Jesus' actual attitude/behavior towards reformation and challenging of application of the scriptures.
The Catholics are, I think, more guilty of just locking people out of the Bible and telling them all sorts of idiocies about what there was in the book and what should be done, from indulgence papers being up for sale to the entire racket of the Holy Inquisition, which of course healthily spurred Protestantism, than actually adulterating the holy texts.
Still I believe that those wishing to forge the Bible's teachings and commands, don't really need to alter its text, they just need a habit to wear and secure the 'authority to apply the world of God' and they're all set, if the flock has not learnt to think for itself and seek God on their own.
Also I personally don't think it's okay to arbitrarily rewrite the holy texts like it's about a textbook's second or third edition ( "now with new appendices!" ) especially when not all the followers of the particular faith are aware of that. If everyone decides to amend or change the way something is done, then it's time to add to the sum of the holy texts with NEW texts, rather than mess with the older ones. I think that's the only sincere or straightforward way to go about something like that.
Okay semi rant over. :P Sorry if any of this is TMI or put you guys to sleep. XD
What Bravo said also is true (just read it).
Many times a single word can change the entire meaning of a sentence. And many times errors were made purposefully or unintentionally that affected entire generations.
Aside those really vital elements though, I do think that sticklers arguing about 'virgin vs young woman' or 'whether it says traveller or nursing woman' or any of that stuff is to be exacting to the point the essence of the teaching is lost. If the principle of what is being taught is understood and digested, it doesn't really matter what EXACTLY was meant at the time especially considering that a lot of socio political parameters have changed over the eons and many safety precautions (to protect women and girls, or to protect health) are not relevant anymore in the level of concreteness, so to speak, that some factions are trying to secure.
Puritanism is definitely NOT something Jesus ascribed to, no matter what the denomination or the sect. ;)
I used to get on my high horse (a LOT) and say to people - "that's not how your faith is supposed to be, it's this and this and that because I know the history and the source material and you've got it all wrong…" and so on.
Then I came to the realisation that it's their faith, not mine, they know better than me what they should be believing in. So for the most part now I let Wiccans, Catholics, Protestants, Pagan revivalists, Satanists and what-have-you be. The only people you can really argue that stuff with are fellow outsiders to the religions I think.
It's like arguing with a cat on the right way to be a cat.
ozoneocean wrote:My horse is pretty low all things considered but I've found myself telling not what they should think but what the actual theology of their faith says as opposed to what they think it is. A lot of the faithful don't know what their faith believes and think it agrees with them when it often doesn't.
I used to get on my high horse (a LOT) and say to people - "that's not how your faith is supposed to be, it's this and this and that because I know the history and the source material and you've got it all wrong…" and so on.
It's like arguing with a cat on the right way to be a cat.
I see this with Catholics because they often can reach for the catechism and read what it says. It disagrees with a lot of interpretations of scripture and has quite a lot of mythology and there's lots of Christian mythology that isn't in scripture. Much ofthe storyof the three wise men isn't in scripture. And you tell them that and they look at you "I didn't know that!' and I can quote the passage and they're astounded and begin questioning. I may never get them to be atheists but I have made a few better Christians.
The entire New Testament may be a collection of mythological stories that grew up around the sayings of a teacher named Jesus. He said some great stuff.
And Tantz, historically even the Puritans weren't really Puritans. What we think of as Puritans is actually how they were mythologized in the 18th Century, not who they really were. THough I love Nathanial Hawthorne's definition that A Puritan is one who lives in constant fear and dread that someone, somewhere is having fun.
They are the "faithful" though. Whatever they believe really is their faith when it comes down to it.
Religion isn't based on truisms or some pure knowledge passed down from time immemorial (unless you "believe" it is), the reality is that it's whatever the current followers say it is. Religions are growing, living parts of our culture that only exist because of those followers. It's not for outsiders to decide.
(When all you've got left are the books and the idols, then it's dead. Just another old mythology.)
Well everyone's faith (or beliefs such as atheism) is personal and of course infringing on that is basically breaching the other person's human right to believe what they want.
However, Ozone, it's one thing to argue with a cat how to be a cat, and another thing to argue with a dog that they can't possibly be a cat, if you get my meaning ;)
Bravo- that puritan definition made me laugh! And it sounds so dead on for what a puritan has come to mean to us :D Anyway I did mean puritanism in that exact definition I think. XD Basically 'putting unbearable burdens on the backs of people, while not shouldering the same'.
Because in truth, I have never met a puritanistic person that attempts to dominate over others brandishing the fear of God over them, and with insanely strict rules that have nothing to do with real purity, goodness or love, who follows their own rules without making an 'exception' or two JUST for their own selves.
No argument from me Oz. What they believe is for them to determine. But as Tantz's simple saying about a dog not being a cat is what I meant. A Presbyterian was telling me why they're not an Epicsolpalian and they couldn't until I explained the doctrinal differences to them. When I next saw them she told me she had gone to their minister and he had said I was right.
It's the same thing when I tell Catholics that Jews don't really have tails and Lutherans don't sacrifice babies to Moloch. Then there's explaining what is in Scripture and what did Jesus say as opposed to Paul or Augustine.
The thing is in Christianity there are supposed to be set doctrines that do not change because they are the revealed truth of a diety. And that faith is exlusive of all others because it does it right and everyone else does it wrong.
Yup, always changing and redefining because religion is man-made not made by one omni-everything diety. I argue from the gutter not a high horse. I'm not better than anyone else when I tell them that their emperor has no clothes.
Or not. Wish I could find a way to put this into a comic. Love to have something deeper and more in the conversations or at least trend that way.
Nice guitar Gullas! I should be getting one eventually… I donated $200 to Juno-Blair's (she does Star Crossed Destiny) Kickstarter for her band's (Absinthe Junk) next album launch.
The reward was a nice red guitar used in the recording. So when they get around to sending it… Waiting :(
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Christ web design stuff is fricken BOOOORING!!!!!!!! I'm working on a site redesign right now for my job and I'm almost falling asleep. This isn't even coding, which would probably be a lot more fascinating, no, aesthetics. But aesthetics where elements have to be exactly the right proportions and sizes for certain specific sorts of content.
SO DULLLLLLL… but worse, because I have to think about it while I'm doing it. Stuff like ditch digging, cleaning toilets, or washing dishes, would be many times more preferable and satisfying.
ozoneocean wrote:You just described my work history since I left teaching. Great part of it is comraderie. You joke around with co-workers more digging ditches than you do web-designing.
SO DULLLLLLL… but worse, because I have to think about it while I'm doing it. Stuff like ditch digging, cleaning toilets, or washing dishes, would be many times more preferable and satisfying.
I can just see you chin in hand, elbow on the table, nodding off as you move the cursor around the screen. A yawn, CLICK, exaggerated blink trying to keep the eyes open, POINT/CLICK, GRAB… Yawn…
I had a wild ride of a dream about cross-dressing, giant destroyer robots, stretch sports cars and lots of one liners. IT was confusing but funny. The double meaning of the dialogue about the lack testicles when I was told I needed to escape dressed as a woman was so deadpan. Then the minute I decide to give up the lady's guise the first thing I do is get a gun. Most of my dreams are highly frustrating and I'll often wake up thrashing, this one I just shot everyone, even if I didn't hit them, I just shot them. Kind of cool in a dream where you shoot someone, they don't fall down and they try to stop you because of the frustration factor and you reply "I shot you, you're dead, go away." They they do.
i had a dream with a crossdresser in it once too, who, inevitably got eaten by a t-rex….FML…..
also, i have had at least two dreams where i died, so the notion that "if you dream about dying you die in real life" goes out the window. though TECHNICALLY, i did come back to life in both of them. one as a zombie, and the other was pretty bad ass actually! see, these mob type guys shot me in the head and when i died, the dream actually stopped. like im not sure for how long, but it was just like sleeping without dreaming until it picked back up again and in the dream a was waking back up as they were carrying my body out've the office i'd been shot in and i could feel the blood pouring down my face as i lifted my head up. so i killed the guys hauling me off some how then got into it with the main mob guy and ended up trying to drown him in a toilet but he wouldnt died and it was getting frusterating. but still, you gotta admit, bad ass. "you and i have unfinished business"….
but still, i wonder, has anyone here had dreams where you actually DIE and stay dead? it's not something i believe in, but i just wonder what other people's experiences might've been, specially since this is a community of artists and writers and alotve us could have very vivid dreams, im sure. and that's what's intruiging i think, how vivid something can feel that you've never felt before. does anyone have anything that's stood out, even besides "dying"?
When I was a kid I had a dream where I committed suicide and that totally freaked me out. It started with me upstairs and the parents waking me up with "Your relatives were here," going down to see them killing everyone in sight since they were flesh-eating vampires.
This was before flesh-eating zombies so they were vampires. My brother and I escape and have travel the world fighting they. Except the world is B&W with a B&W watercolor wash sky and the only color is red and the flesh tones of those still alive.
Finally we're back at our house and we're the last handful left alive. Somewhere along the road I had acquired a light saber (I dreamed this in 1982 after I had seen Empire) and I was slicing up the vampires nicely. You had to kill them by either destroying their heart or decapitation. At last it's just me I get a breather and run into the yard to get my jetpack. I had to escape into space and meet up with a space fleet that was observing our planet. So I flew up and up trying to get radio contact, in slow motion I see a guy take out a crossbow and knock out my jetpack and I go down.
I crash and rather than giving in I say "Forgive me God for what I'm about to do for now I go to hell and not to you" and neatly decapitate myself with a swipe of the light saber.
It's all black and then I hear my own breathing and there's Dracula looking down on me. "You know since all humans are vampires that includes the greatest surgeons. We reattached your head." But I had won because I would not become a vampire since I had bee decapitated.
Dracula gave me the mission of killing the Last Man on Earth; Charleton Heston from the Omega Man. I did my destoying his heart neatly with my light saber so he would not be a vampire either. The Dream faded to black and I heard my parents yelling for me to get up because my relatives were here. Then I woke up for real crying because despite the fantastic elements I had killed myself in the dream.
Talk about vivid. This one hasn't gone away in thirty years.
bravo1102 wrote:
I am legend.
There, fixed :)
That reminds me- I was trying to watch Zombieland but had to quit part way through… it was late and the movie was just at a depressing stage about a girl having to kill her sister. It wasn't any help to my drawing so I turned it off.
But it got me thinking that zombies in this new current zombie genre they're all really just sick people usually. Generally the idea is to turn people into mindless, dead robots so the idea of killing them in silly ways isn't at all repugnant. But when the people are alive, but just sick, it is still bad. That genre style is horrible.
-there's no reason for killing them anyway. They're pathetic shambling wrecks with no mind left, all they want to do is eat. They'd be easy to control and corral and treat or euthanase. Escaped zoo animals and hungry pets would be more dangerous than dopey sick morons smeared in their own excreta. All they know how to do is hide and then run and bite people… no very advanced attacking skills those.
Aaaaaaanyway, I'm going to give the film another go.
Just an old favorite… or as close to it as I can find that's updated… and I'm kinda saddened by it.
Youtube video: Intro Combattler V 2012
It's as close to Voltes V that I can find that's updated. However, it's pronounced as "V" rather than "5". Combattler V came out before Voltes V(5), yet Voltes was (and probably still is) worshipped in the Philippines. So much so that Marcos banned the show. It shows that these giant robots aren't as invincible as they are usually shown. It also the typical five characters you'll see in most giant robot teams, including the hot blooded righteous leader, the snarking smart aleck second in command, the big tough guy, the cute girl, and the pint sized young genious who's usually the big tough guy's best friend.
So why am I saddened by that intro? Because it's not an actual anime. It's the animation to a PACHINKO machine… the "bullet hell" version of Pinball (in Pachinko you overwhelm the playfield with as many balls as you can while in Pinball you keep one ball in the field as long as possible).
I like the crotch rocket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kh7uBEJbnE&feature=related#
He uses that to destroy the female robo later on… o_O
We had the original show here in Oz too, it was rebraded as Voltron, before they showed the actual Voltron with the lines and stuff.
You DON'T want a pony. I hear those things can be pretty expensive to take care of. They'll eat all of your art profits before you know it.
How about some Holland Lop bunnies instead? :)
ozoneocean wrote:That's the solution Ricky Gervais came up with in Shaun of the Dead. They're great for performing simple, menial tasks.
-there's no reason for killing them anyway. They're pathetic shambling wrecks with no mind left, all they want to do is eat. They'd be easy to control and corral and treat or euthanase. Escaped zoo animals and hungry pets would be more dangerous than dopey sick morons smeared in their own excreta. All they know how to do is hide and then run and bite people… no very advanced attacking skills those.
As for the "I am Legend" I had read the book and seen both movie adaptations up to 1982 (Vincent Price Last Man on Earth and Charleton Heston Omega Man) 'cept I'm the "undead" plot device used to kill the last guy.
The better dream was the vivid one where I get deployed to Bosnia and get shot through the eye. Or the one where I command a Sherman tank in WWII down to the boredom of fire commands and maintenance. *yuck* You want vivid combat action and I get vivid period dreams about pulling maintenance on a World War II tank.
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