Thread "Happy 2020! General Discussion Thread" in forum "Comic Talk and General Discussion *"

Posted at 9:03PM, Mar. 15, 2020

ozoneocean wrote:

The nasty thing about Covid-19 is that it's more infectious than the normal flu and often leads directly to viral pneumonia. That's the important thing!

Normally flu messes with your lungs, weakens your immune system and makes you susceptible to a bacterial infection in the lungs that can give you pneumonia. That's bad and can lead to fatality, but at least we can fight it with all sorts of antibiotics.
You can't fight viruses that way though. And there's no vaccine to Covid-19 yet, so once you have viral pneumonia from it there's nothing you can do except wait for your immune system to slowly weather it and clean it up.
And if your immune system is already compromised or your lungs are weak or whatever, then you better be careful :(

Yes, 4 and 5 years ago I had flu that lead to pneumonia and 2-3 weeks in hospital each time, touch & go and on oxygen continuously…
I'm 71, as of last Thursday, a life-long asthmatic and post-transplant, "strike 3" for me ! B-)

Posted at 9:03PM, Mar. 16, 2020

In the #theresalwaysabrightside dept. - now half the planet is on lockdown, new pages should be being created at a prolific rate, with a huge upturn in posting frequency ! B-)

Posted at 7:03AM, Mar. 17, 2020

I've been following what's been going on with COVID-19 lately, and I'm not going to lie: despite my dad being in a VA home right now, the virus itself doesn't scare me. It's the reaction and "solution" that's been keeping me on edge lately.

I've been having some sleepless nights as a result. I'm concerned about these lockdowns becoming a more permanent thing. That or, if this does blow over, it becomes a precedent into how much we can give up to the state. I find it a little creepy that US state governors can tell private business owners when or if they can stay open. I think a bar or a restaurant can make the decision about whether to stay open or not during this crisis themselves, and not have to be forced to by a government official.

I don't want to sound inflammatory posting this. I ended up in a huge argument on the Comicfury forums yesterday because of this same topic. The fact of the matter is that I am really scared right now. I have been slipping into a deep depression lately, verging suicidal, just wondering when or if I'm ever going to see my dad or anyone else in person ever again. He's 87 years old and while in okay health, at that age he could go any time. I've made the effort to go and visit him at least once a week for over a year as a result. I hate the idea of living through another great depression (my dad was born in the middle of that, it was not fun) or in a world without any freedom left. It's the only thing I have left.

Posted at 8:03AM, Mar. 17, 2020

I THINK THAT EVER SINCE this outbreak broke out, all these solutions went from okay, to stupid, to down right authoritarian.

I am literally the most progressive, liberal person as much as everyone else, but shutting down the planet is completely scary. Not to mention of a potential economic collapse.

The rise of totalitarianism is literally the most scariest part of it all. The United States, with its VAST resources could have prepared for this. But nope, lets fire the Pandemic Team over at the CDC because nothing bad will happen right?

Posted at 11:03AM, Mar. 17, 2020

elektro wrote:
I find it a little creepy that US state governors can tell private business owners when or if they can stay open. I think a bar or a restaurant can make the decision about whether to stay open or not during this crisis themselves, and not have to be forced to by a government official.

During the Blitz, British people were told by government officials to black out their windows, so the Luftwaffe could not aim at lights on the ground. Nobody was allowed to make their own decision on the matter. Around 32,000 people died in the Blitz.

With a total lockdown, there's a chance of keeping UK coronavirus deaths below 250,000. Without it you can double that.

Posted at 6:03PM, Mar. 17, 2020

There's already a longstanding precedent for chief executives – state governors as well as presidents – implementing draconian measures in times of disaster or emergency. It's nothing new, and you shouldn't be worried about it.

I have to admit, while I haven't looked into exactly how this "herd immunity" thing is being implemented in the UK, it does strike me as an intriguing option. If the outbreak doesn't provide us a (temporary) respite in the coming spring and summer, then the only path back to normalcy is once enough people are immunized that the virus can no longer readily spread person-to-person. Immunization would come from a vaccine – months away at best – or through exposure. Exposing enough low risk people to the virus sounds like a sensible way of building up enough community immunity to blunt the worst of it without overloading the medical system. And if you have enough medical resources on hand to deal with the relatively few serious cases, then you can drastically bring down mortality rates even among high risk populations. It's a scary idea, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a bad idea. And it's the only plan I see with a discernible endgame.

Posted at 10:03PM, Mar. 17, 2020

The "herd immunity" idea as the UK government is playing with it is bad and good science doesn't support it. It means the death toll can be a lot bigger.

The trouble is that no one alive today has lived through a pandemic like this so we don't think it's a big deal and we see the solutions , like lockdowns, as the real problem… When it's not.

This is basically the type of plauge that killed so many in the past that we read about in history books:
Not fatal enough that transmission to a much greater number of people is possible. The more people that get it the more change of a bigger death toll.

If you're young and healthy you will probably be ok, if you're old or have a compromised immune system you will probably die because there's nothing that can be done. There's no cure, vaccine, antidote or treatment. Nothing that can fight the virus except your own body and contrary to alt health people and conartists, there's both ng That will "boost your immune system" :(

Posted at 5:03AM, Mar. 18, 2020

We have been down this road at least twice in the past ten years. SARS, H1N1 were both pandemics like this. That the resources and planning weren't in place is so many people's fault in and out of government.

We knew it was a matter of time before something like this happened again our efforts were found wanting. But fortunately though this is a very communicable illness it is not a particularly lethal one. Between 3 to 0.7% won't be anything like the plagues of old where death rates were 20% and up. And we're all reacting like it's the pneumonic plague where the death rate is 50% and up.

This is not that. There's still research to be done but following the example of South Korea is pretty much our best bet. Test, test and test, isolate the infected and keep going. However large mobile populations just won't sit still and some governments are slow to mobilize even though they have seen like before. A lot of the self quarantine and shutdown is based on the actions taken with Spanish flu 100 years ago where it was crowds celebrating Armistice that spread it so quickly. But that had a 25% mortality rate. Studies indicate that even today Spanish Flu would be upwards of 15% lethal not 0.7 let alone 3%.

But facts don't matter in the face of hysteria.

And you know how to boost your immune system? What doctors say you should already be doing. Eat right and remain active.

Now excuse me I have to wipe down some frequently used surfaces and wash my hands again.

Posted at 7:03AM, Mar. 18, 2020

It seems impossible to draw accurate conclusions about the mortality rate of Spanish Flu due to the lack of data. The 25% you mentioned is the highest I've seen. Others make a case for it being as low as 2%. As for herd immunity, the UK government seems to have abandoned that theoretical approach very quickly in the face of rapidly developing circumstances. I expect we'll be in line with other European countries within days, maybe hours. Schools are still open but an announcement is expected later today.

I don't think that's hysteria. The measure of any society is how it cares for it's most vulnerable members, so if people are willing to put their own lives on hold to achieve that, so much the better. Maybe we will all emerge from our quarantine just a little bit less divided.

Bogroll stockpiling on the other hand, that's definitely mass hysteria. Or possibly mass diarrhoea.

Posted at 7:03AM, Mar. 18, 2020

There are a lot of con-artists rising too. Especially when it comes to this pandemic.

Posted at 8:03AM, Mar. 18, 2020

With the "flattening the curve" articles lots of examples and data are quoted from public health records of 1917-20. The US kept decent data in urban areas at the time. Many cities had been through plenty of serious epidemics and had a fairly modern approach. One city canceled all the Armistice celebrations and urged self quarantine another had their celebration. A 2-3% rate of death versus 15-20% resulted.

I've already seen people with cloves of garlic in their pockets, just like my grandmother told me they did in 1919.

I'm on vacation but I'm back to work next week because I'm an essential worker being security in petroleum distribution. But I work outside and have a stick to measure proper safe distance. I also have a persistent dry cough because of my high blood pressure medication. I've also had a couple of 24 hour bugs so I'm alert to any personal health concerns.

I have had to take a bunch of online courses about pandemics and precautions because of my job so I'm not going into this totally talking out of my rear. It's freaking part of my job. Also had a bit of public health training back in the National Guard.

I already dealt with one of the previous scares back when I worked security in a senior residence. I'm thankful I don't have to deal with that kind of lockdown this time around.

Posted at 5:03PM, Mar. 18, 2020

Happy new year to everyone here at the Duck. May you all be happy, healthy, and prosperous. We are definitely living in interesting times, and we need to learn some new tricks to living safely. Fortunately, drawing and posting here on the Duck is the ultimate in “Social Distancing”. ;-) All the best.

— Rick Rudge

Posted at 9:03PM, Mar. 18, 2020

SARS, H1N1 and the rest are certainly nothing like the situation now. Both were nasty flus but this one has caused world wide panic and shutdowns. Neither of those did that. CoVid-19 is the only pandemic in living memory that has caused this kind of global social and economic impact. There's no need to down-play it.

It's more like the plagues of old in the social impact and the global nature of it. Not the death toll because we have way better education, sanitation, testing, more advanced medical services, and just way better systems in place at every level to deal with it than we have at any time in the past.
Things like Ebola were fare deadlier and that barely made it out of Africa. If many of the plagues from the past struck today they probably wouldn't make much of a dent at all.

Posted at 9:03PM, Mar. 18, 2020

I mean- no people on the streets, cancelled events, shortages in shops world wide, people being forced to go on leave from work…
Looks like I'll be forced to go on leave as well, and maybe the business I work for won't survive and I'll have to find another job.

This is a very interesting time. I hope this sort of thing won't happen again.

Posted at 3:03AM, Mar. 19, 2020

Downplaying a tragedy like this is part of coping. You think of the worst that has happened in the past, compare this to that and realize it's not that bad and you can deal with it.

It's how I've come to deal with my lifelong tendency of catastrophizing and being completely overwhelmed.

I take it apart and deal with it. What do I have to do, what can I do and I do it.

Even with modern sanitation and medicine if pneumonic plague got going you'd still see a high death toll. Septicemic plague moves so fast that treatments have to begin within hours. And even with modern everything bubonic plague still will kill 15-20% of all infected.

And if the anti-vaxers have their way we'll be back to the bad old days of epidemics that make this look like a holiday jaunt to Canterbury. That's what Chaucer was writing about. A trip through the clean countryside to social distance from the black death in the city.

Posted at 10:03AM, Mar. 19, 2020

bravo1102 wrote:
Downplaying a tragedy like this is part of coping. You think of the worst that has happened in the past, compare this to that and realize it's not that bad and you can deal with it.

It's how I've come to deal with my lifelong tendency of catastrophizing and being completely overwhelmed.

I take it apart and deal with it. What do I have to do, what can I do and I do it.

Even with modern sanitation and medicine if pneumonic plague got going you'd still see a high death toll. Septicemic plague moves so fast that treatments have to begin within hours. And even with modern everything bubonic plague still will kill 15-20% of all infected.

And if the anti-vaxers have their way we'll be back to the bad old days of epidemics that make this look like a holiday jaunt to Canterbury. That's what Chaucer was writing about. A trip through the clean countryside to social distance from the black death in the city.

What about this guy? He kinda sounds more like a CON-MAN saying that he can cure the virus. What do you think lol?

Posted at 11:03AM, Mar. 19, 2020

If this deity created all life, she must love beetles, arceara and bacteria most of all. So many species of them and they multiply and evolve such diversity.

We mere humans are at the mercy of so many things even the not quite alive viruses. So if this deity exists, I truly think she's on the side of the disease and not the hairless apes who claim she created them in her image. Judging by life on this planet, if any one organism was created in god's image it probably was the beetle. But man created god in his own image.

Posted at 7:03PM, Mar. 19, 2020

From a social management point of view I can see the value of a religious showman like that, keeping vulnerable people calm and content (the sort of thing Bravo mentions). That has value to the community.

Where it's bad is when it doe the opposite and contributes to worry, makes people complacent or makes people think they're cured.
In any of those cases the person should be taken off the air. Speech that endangers people is an exception under the free speech amendment to the US constitution. You can be prosecuted for that.

Posted at 8:03PM, Mar. 19, 2020

ozoneocean wrote:
From a social management point of view I can see the value of a religious showman like that, keeping vulnerable people calm and content (the sort of thing Bravo mentions). That has value to the community.

Hmmm… maybe for some 'mainstream' religious leaders - the Dalai Lama was saying the other day how we need to turn to science to answer this problem - a LOT different to these greedy seppo televangelists..THIS ^ guy was saying everyone must keep paying their tithes, never mind their job woes, so he's just another money-grabbing charlatan who deserves to be one the C-19 casualties. along with Jim Bakker, Paula White and others, particularly the already loooong-overdue to "meet his maker" Pat Robertson ! B-)

Posted at 8:03PM, Mar. 19, 2020

I would recommend maintaining a safe distance from that man. You can literally see the virus colonising his thumb.

Posted at 3:03AM, Mar. 20, 2020

Asking for tithes is evil, the guy should be jailed.

Posted at 5:03AM, Mar. 20, 2020

I have been given a crappy duty during all of this. My boss, bless her, has a heart of gold. She has even told me that it the companies revenue dries up during all this, she will use her own personal savings to fund payroll. I like my job and think she is a good person.

She also is former Navy and runs a tight ship. She has sent many of us, myself included, to work from home. Though she has had some employees work from home before, it is something she wouldn't have anything but her most trusted employees do, and she trusts no one. She has a computer monitoring program to track what employees do on their computers and predicts productivity. It rarely is needed, but there just in case and disclosed in the handbook. She believes anyone she sends home will be distracted by kids, housework, etc, so she wants to knuckle down on the monitoring.

So guess who has to be "big brother?" Worst part is that she reminded employees of the software in a meeting that I wasn't at because I'm at home. And then she told them that I'd be working with the HR manager to keep tabs on them. Yay!

Posted at 5:03AM, Mar. 20, 2020

ozoneocean wrote:
Asking for tithes is evil, the guy should be jailed.

Can I reccomend the Supermax Prison

Posted at 8:03AM, Mar. 23, 2020

Listen up people! Pull yourself away from the gaming console and post! ;)

Posted at 6:03PM, Mar. 23, 2020

They did have gaming consoles when I was growing up. It was called Pong and consisted of a white dot going from one side of the screen to the other. On one side it went Bip and on the other it went Bop. I thought, there's no way this stuff is ever going to catch on and learned to play guitar instead. Now Pong's children have taken over the planet.

—

I'm trying to remain calm. The UK has gone into total lockdown and I only have one lime.